robf2@pyuxf.UUCP (robert fair) (01/28/88)
I recently bought the MSC 5.0 Optimizing Compiler on the strength of
Microsoft's ads.
I soon discovered, like most of the net, that lots of the so-called
optimizations are broken, e.g. intrinsic functions, loop optimizations.
By "broke" I mean that the compiler generates bad code which causes
programs to go into never-never land.
I followed Microsoft's directions for support, submitting test programs
showing the problem etc, and asking for an update.
Their reply arrived today, in short they admitted the compiler was
broke but they did not intend to fix it. Tough Shit.
So here I am having spent several $000 on a compiler which does not
perform as advertised and the manufacturer refuses to fix.
Does anyone have any suggestions where to go from here ?
I feel that Microsoft got me to buy MSC under false pretenses, since their
ad's claimed features which don't work, and Msoft refuses to make them work.
I know Msoft has a lousy reputation for support - if there are other
people out there with the same feelings as me maybe its time for
a group lawsuit. Bill Gates has got a damn sight too big for his boots !
--
Robert L. Fair Standard Disclaimer:
Bell Communications Research/CHC I speak for myself only.
Piscataway, NJ
{ihnp4,allegra}!pyuxww!pyuxf!robf2nortond@killer.UUCP (Daniel A. Norton) (01/30/88)
In article <248@pyuxf.UUCP> robf2@pyuxf.UUCP (robert fair) writes: >I recently bought the MSC 5.0 Optimizing Compiler on the strength of >Microsoft's ads. Pretty slick ads, eh? >I followed Microsoft's directions for support, submitting test programs >showing the problem etc, and asking for an update. I saved time and phoned them directly about my problem. Before I told them what the problem was, I asked if they would provide me a fix if I found something new. They declined and I did not tell them about the bug. >So here I am having spent several $000 on a compiler which does not >perform as advertised and the manufacturer refuses to fix. > >Does anyone have any suggestions where to go from here ? Yes. Please tell the rest of us on the network about the problem. At least we can work around these bugs if we know about them. In your report, however, include a restrictive copyright notice particularly restricting Microsoft from using the report for internal use and bug-fixing. These bug reports are of very high commercial value to Microsoft. It does not seem like a fair trade to report a bug to them and have them turn around and profit by it without renumeration to the person who spent time diagnosing the problem. A month or so ago, I reported a bug in a MSC intrinsic which included such a copyright notice. If anyone has information which suggests that Microsoft or an employee of Microsoft has violated the license agreement, please inform me. >I feel that Microsoft got me to buy MSC under false pretenses, since their >ad's claimed features which don't work, and Msoft refuses to make them work. > >I know Msoft has a lousy reputation for support - if there are other >people out there with the same feelings as me maybe its time for >a group lawsuit. ... I would be interested in participating in such a "class-action" suit, but I am ignorant of such legal options. Anyone in misc.legal care to comment? -- Daniel A. Norton ...{lll-lcc,ptsfa,hplabs}!well!nortond 544 Cormorant Drive Voorhees, NJ 08043 609/751-7381
alleng@killer.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) (01/31/88)
In article <248@pyuxf.UUCP> robf2@pyuxf.UUCP (robert fair) writes: >I recently bought the MSC 5.0 Optimizing Compiler on the strength of >Microsoft's ads.... [explained that compiler was buggy, and he attempted >to get Microsoft to fix the problems]... >Their reply arrived today, in short they admitted the compiler was >broke but they did not intend to fix it. Tough Shit. > >So here I am having spent several $000 on a compiler which does not >perform as advertised and the manufacturer refuses to fix. > >Does anyone have any suggestions where to go from here ? Sure do! There is a law in Texas called the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. It allows the victim to recover thrice the damages plus $100 plus reasonable attorney's fees and court costs. I would suspect that most states had the same laws. A class action lawsuit sounds good, but you may have to prove that everyone was damaged (I believe). When you file the suit, this forces the Defendant to release records showing who has purchased the product. Then you are required to write them a letter. They are auto- matically included in the lawsuit, unless they write a letter and speci- fically request to be excluded. Your lawyer can tell you more. Try consulting the Federal Trade Commission (ATTN: The Secretary, Washington D.C.). If you bought the product from them through the mail, check with the postal inspectors. There are many avenues that you can pursue. Be creative! As for me, I will note that down, and will keep it in mind the next time we have need for a compiler. -- Allen Gwinn / email: {ihnp4!decvax!killer}!sulaco!allen \ USPS: P.O. Box 740444, Dallas, TX 75374-0444
mcdonald@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (02/04/88)
I ordered my Microsoft C 4.00 to 5.00 upgrade in middle December. It still hasn't come. Our purchasing agent called them and they said that it wasn't shipping due to bugs. They hoped to have some sort of product out soon (read: some bugs fixed). Remember that their Fortran 4.00 was so buggy that they shipped free fixed versions (4.01) .Maybe they'll do this for C. In any event, at least around here they are charging only $45 for the 4.00->5.? upgrade. Doug McDonald University of Illinois. .
neff@hpvcla.HP.COM (Dave Neff) (02/09/88)
I have no great love for Microsoft, but I have found their support to be acceptable. What is unacceptable is the quality of their software. A company as large as Microsoft should not be shipping products -- especially language products -- with as many bugs as exist in these products. From the support standpoint, I have sent in compiler bugs with the various documentation and gotton phone calls acknowledging the bug, letters including fixes to the bugs, and free compiler updates. Of course they will not promise in advance to fix any or all bugs, but would you make this promise if you were running your own software company? What the user perceives as a bug may not be perceived as a bug to the programmer. On one extreme I have dealt with a company that defines a bug as "anything that PREVENTS you from accomplishing the task the software was designed to do." If its an annoying problem that slows you down, its not a bug! This company was not even willing to concede that a program crash was a bug -- as long as there was a workaround to the program crash (i.e. don't do whatever caused the crash, accomplish the task with a different combination of instructions, etc.)! Once when I found a bug and the Microsoft technical support person said the bug was known and their was a free compiler upgrade with the bug fixed. I then complained that I was never notified of the upgrade despite being a registered owner (they ALWAYS notified me when there was a not for free upgrade). I wrote a letter to their customer support person. Over the next year, I received in the mail no less than 10 copies of the compiler (all the same version). I kept expecting a dump truck to show up one day and unload a truckload of compilers on my front lawn!! I summary, I think Microsoft's customer support people do try hard, I just think the quality of their products is very poor. I wouldn't touch OS/2 for at least a year after its release. Dave Neff ihnp4!hpfcla!hpvcla!neff