carroll@s.cs.uiuc.edu (04/17/89)
/* Written 7:56 pm Mar 31, 1989 by w-colinp@microsoft.UUCP in s.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.lang.c */
/* ---------- "Re: Texts on fundamentals of progra" ---------- */
It isn't C, and it's pretty heavy going alone, but "The Structure and
Interpretation of Computer Programs", by Abelson & Sussman (the textbook
for the first year CS intro for CS and EE programs at MIT) will teach
almost anyone a hell of a lot. This goes for rank beginners through
Dennis Ritchie. The C-Scheme compiler is available from MIT.
/* End of text from s.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.lang.c */
flamage() {
*Blech* I took a class in which we used that book and MIT-scheme, and
it was the worst class I've ever had. Most of my hatred for LISP-like
languages stems from my experiences with those two items. An
associate of mine who is a Scheme-guru told me that "MIT scheme is
the worst implementation there is". It was big, it was slow, and it had
*no* debugging capability (the manual claimed it did, but the messages
would abort after the first few characters, i.e. just enough to see the
generic header but not any useful information).
The book wasn't so bad, but I never found anything in it that wasn't
either trivially obvious, useless, or something any non-novice should
know anyway. My experience with students learning Scheme vs. C is that
as bad as C is, it's not nearly as bad as Scheme. As a high school student
I picked up C in a couple weeks, to the point where I code write code
freely. 3 years after first learning Scheme, I have still not reached
that point.
}
Alan M. Carroll "And then you say,
carroll@s.cs.uiuc.edu We have the Moon, so now the Stars..." - YES
CS Grad / U of Ill @ Urbana ...{ucbvax,pur-ee,convex}!s.cs.uiuc.edu!carrollgateley@m2.csc.ti.com (John Gateley) (04/19/89)
In article <207600019@s.cs.uiuc.edu> carroll@s.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >flamage() { >[Speaking about "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs"] >The book wasn't so bad, but I never found anything in it that wasn't >either trivially obvious, useless, or something any non-novice should >know anyway. I think the book is very good, and contains lots of useful information: recursion, order of growth, first class usage of procedures, data abstraction, streams, (meta-circular) interpreters, compilers, other methods (like normal order) for parameter passing, and garbage collection. These topics are presented with many realistic examples. But then, I like scheme too :^) John gateley@tilde.csc.ti.com
d87-hho@nada.kth.se (Henrik Holmstr|m) (04/22/89)
In article <207600019@s.cs.uiuc.edu> carroll@s.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >/* Written 7:56 pm Mar 31, 1989 by w-colinp@microsoft.UUCP in s.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.lang.c */ >/* ---------- "Re: Texts on fundamentals of progra" ---------- */ >It isn't C, and it's pretty heavy going alone, but "The Structure and >Interpretation of Computer Programs", by Abelson & Sussman (the textbook >for the first year CS intro for CS and EE programs at MIT) will teach >almost anyone a hell of a lot. This goes for rank beginners through >Dennis Ritchie. The C-Scheme compiler is available from MIT. >/* End of text from s.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.lang.c */ Agree. Good for C programmers too. I strongly recomend the book. And as you all know, there is a free Gnu scheme available. >flamage() { >*Blech* I took a class in which we used that book and MIT-scheme, and >it was the worst class I've ever had. Most of my hatred for LISP-like >languages stems from my experiences with those two items. An I took it too. It was pure pleasure. >The book wasn't so bad, but I never found anything in it that wasn't >either trivially obvious, useless, or something any non-novice should >know anyway. My experience with students learning Scheme vs. C is that >as bad as C is, it's not nearly as bad as Scheme. You missed the point completly. The course is *not* a Scheme course. It uses Scheme as tool to talk about many important topics like OOP and other forms of abstraction. I think the course is fantastic. And note, I've been a C-programmer long before I even know Lisp existed and I'm using C as my main language. But the point is the ideas and they are usable in any programming language. It seems to me that you are so anti-Lisp that you were unable to see all the good stuff. >As a high school student >I picked up C in a couple weeks, to the point where I code write code >freely. 3 years after first learning Scheme, I have still not reached >that point. >} Don't you think your hate can have affected the learning process? And as we all know, some people need longer time than others.