d87-hho@nada.kth.se (Henrik Holmstr|m) (05/04/89)
This article talks about how to post. If you are only interested in C I suggest you hit 'n'. In article <418@algor2.UUCP> jeffrey@algor2.UUCP (Jeffrey Kegler) writes: >In article <941@draken.nada.kth.se> Henrik Holmstr|m writes: >>Do we need 28 follow-ups to a trivial question? You know the rule, if you >>see something obviously wrong or simple, don't just hit 'F'. Wait a day >>or two and see if someone else answered the question (or just mail the anwser. >While I sympathize with Mr Holmstr|m, I hope his advice is not followed. For a >start, if it were universally followed, you would get 28 answers 2 days late. No. The probability that everyone would wait exactly 2 days and then do a follow-up is at the most 0 (zero). >More important, even when the question is "silly", and I already know the >answer, the answers from 28 other people usually add to my knowledge. Yes, some do. But pretty many seem to be so glad they know the answer they just *have* to post (mail the flame - no follow-ups please). Most of the follow-ups to a simple question are very similair. >The only real alternative would be a moderated group where the moderator had >a panel of C experts he called upon. Not needed. All it takes is common sence. I think a big problem with this group is that there are to many postings. As someone else pointed out some week ago, the number of postings has increased dramaticly in the last months. The important stuff disapears in the flow of "talk". Henrik Holmstr|m
tneff@bfmny0.UUCP (Tom Neff) (05/05/89)
Friends, Romans, Usenet-creatures:
When someone posts an elementary question to the net, the best thing
to do if you want to answer it is to MAIL the answer to the poster.
Even if your mail doesn't go through, there will be enough answers to
any elementary question that you can bet someone's will make it.
If the question wasn't totally brain dead you can suggest that the
original poster summarize the answer(s) in news, so that other novices
can benefit.
Unfortunately there will always be two or three people who don't
understand this principle and will post repetitive followups answering
the question. But at least the net can be spared the volume of
YOUR repetitive followup! Every little bit helps.
--
Tom Neff UUCP: ...!uunet!bfmny0!tneff
"Truisms aren't everything." Internet: tneff@bfmny0.UU.NETstephen@ziebmef.uucp (Stephen M. Dunn) (05/16/89)
[article deleted which says, amongst other things, that we should wait a couple of days to post replies to simple questions etc] How about this: If you feel that the question is _that_ simple that everyone on the net knows the answer except the person who posted the original, why not hit r or R and mail a reply to that person only? They could then presumably have their simple question answered without clogging the news. If they feel that others may benefit, they can post one (1) followup article of their own briefly summarizing the responses they have received. If they need more explanation, they can either followup or continue an e-mail discussion with one or more of the people who sent them replies. Of course, much of this mail will bounce, but at least it's something to try doing first to keep simple Q&A from wasting our N and K keys. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ! Stephen M. Dunn stephen@ziebmef.UUCP ! DISCLAIMER: Who'd ever ! ! Take off to the Great White North eh, ya hosehead ! claim such dumb ideas? ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bph@buengc.BU.EDU (Blair P. Houghton) (05/19/89)
In article <1989May15.215656.15717@ziebmef.uucp> stephen@ziebmef.UUCP (Stephen M. Dunn) writes: >[article deleted which says, amongst other things, that we should wait a > couple of days to post replies to simple questions etc] > > How about this: If you feel that the question is _that_ simple that >everyone on the net knows the answer except the person who posted the >original, why not hit r or R and mail a reply to that person only? The obvious answer is: because my ego can't eat just one. How about this: do you really think that I _don't_? Jeez. You oughta see my carbon-copies directory at the end of a day... --Blair "I can feel it inflating even as we speak..."
flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) (05/20/89)
(facetiously) Is it time for comp.lang.c.questions and comp.lang.c.wizards? -- Felix Lee flee@shire.cs.psu.edu *!psuvax1!shire!flee
spl@mcnc.org (Steve Lamont) (05/20/89)
In article <FLEE.89May19215305@shire.cs.psu.edu> flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes: >(facetiously) >Is it time for comp.lang.c.questions and comp.lang.c.wizards? >-- (not so facetiously) Maybe so. -- spl Steve Lamont, sciViGuy EMail: spl@ncsc.org North Carolina Supercomputing Center Phone: (919) 248-1120 Box 12732/RTP, NC 27709
dlarson@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dale Larson) (05/20/89)
In article <4490@alvin.mcnc.org> spl@mcnc.org.UUCP (Steve Lamont) writes: >>(facetiously) >>Is it time for comp.lang.c.questions and comp.lang.c.wizards? >>-- > >(not so facetiously) >Maybe so. I think splitting this thing would save a lot of lines in my KILL file!!! Would also save time for those who don't want to be bothered by wizard talk, and for those wizards who don't have time and/or desire to be bothered by questions. -- dTb dTb I know enough about epistemology to know that I don't know anything about programming OR epistemology! Digital Teddy Bear dlarson@blake.acs.washington.edu
trebor@biar.UUCP (Robert J Woodhead) (05/21/89)
In article <2102@blake.acs.washington.edu> dlarson@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dale Larson) writes: >I think splitting this thing would save a lot of lines in my KILL file!!! My vote is for comp.lang.c.jihads, so there is a place for the pointer arithmetic and casting holy wars to go where they won't bother the rest of us. -- Robert J Woodhead, Biar Games, Inc. !uunet!biar!trebor | trebor@biar.UUCP "The lamb will lie down with the lion, but the lamb won't get much sleep." -- Woody Allen.
daveh@marob.MASA.COM (Dave Hammond) (05/21/89)
>>>Is it time for comp.lang.c.questions and comp.lang.c.wizards? >>Maybe so. >I think splitting this thing would save a lot of lines in my KILL file!!! >Would also save time for those who don't want to be bothered by wizard talk, >and for those wizards who don't have time and/or desire to be bothered by >questions. While we're at it, how about `comp.lang.c.should.be.extended.to.include'? As someone working in the real world, with real C, I would appreciate being able unsubscribe to _this_ particular vein of c.l.c. -- Dave Hammond daveh@marob.masa.com
mike@thor.acc.stolaf.edu (Mike Haertel) (05/21/89)
>>>Is it time for comp.lang.c.questions and comp.lang.c.wizards?
The problem with this plan is that you'd run into all these people
who think they're wizards (look at all the noise in comp.unix.wizards
sometime) and who would immediately fill up the new group with noise.
I think all the noise that has infested this group lately will eventually
go away, at least for long enough to give us all a breathing spell.
Disclaimer: I'm not necessarily a wizard. Just a frustrated reader.
--
Mike Haertel <mike@stolaf.edu>
main() ??< printf("hello, world??/n"); ??>spl@mcnc.org (Steve Lamont) (05/22/89)
In article <2189@thor.acc.stolaf.edu> mike@stolaf.edu writes: > >I think all the noise that has infested this group lately will eventually >go away, at least for long enough to give us all a breathing spell. > .... Yeah... summer break has started... :-) -- spl Steve Lamont, sciViGuy EMail: spl@ncsc.org North Carolina Supercomputing Center Phone: (919) 248-1120 Box 12732/RTP, NC 27709
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (05/22/89)
In article <2189@thor.acc.stolaf.edu> mike@stolaf.edu writes: >I think all the noise that has infested this group lately will eventually >go away, at least for long enough to give us all a breathing spell. I agree. Rather too few people are willing to accept that the best way to deal with such problems is to do nothing and be patient. Rushing about trying to "do something about it" won't help much; the cure is mostly worse than the disease. -- Van Allen, adj: pertaining to | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology deadly hazards to spaceflight. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
fransvo@maestro.htsa.aha.nl (Frans van Otten) (05/22/89)
Robert J. Woodhead writes: >Dale Larson writes: > >>I think splitting this thing would save a lot of lines in my KILL file!!! > > My vote is for comp.lang.c.jihads... How would you feel about a moderated comp.lang.c.questions group ? It could stop those wars, making space for real answers. -- Frans van Otten | fransvo@maestro.htsa.aha.nl or Algemene Hogeschool Amsterdam | fransvo@htsa.uucp or Technische en Maritieme Faculteit | [[...!]backbone!]htsa!fransvo
Tim_CDC_Roberts@cup.portal.com (05/23/89)
In <2189@thor.acc.stolaf.edu>, mike@stolaf.edu writes: > I think that all the noise that has infested this group will go away... > Disclaimer: not a wizard, just a frustrated reader. Why does this stuff frustrate you? From the flames that some of these threads get (Mike, yours was not a flame - I have now moved on to generalities), I honestly cannot tell what the "wizards" would like to see in comp.lang.c. Would you say, "Issues Involving the C Language"? Well, what is the pointer arithmetic confusion if not an Issue Involving the C Language? Would you say, "Intelligent Debate on Topics of Interest"? Again, given the volume of postings, I would say most of the recent "silly questions" have BEEN topics of interest. Would you say "Pieces of C Code Which Have Astounded and Amused Me"? Great, but if that's all there were, this would be a quite place. After a person has amassed a certain amount of experience and moved into the "wizard" real, I think he has an OBLIGATION to provide intelligent and understanding replies to less experienced readers. Chris Torek is a shining example of a person who meets this criteria. Doug Gwyn is a shining example of a person who does not. So, wizards, what is it you DO want in comp.lang.c? Tim_CDC_Roberts@cup.portal.com | Control Data... ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!tim_cdc_roberts | ...or it will control you.
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (05/23/89)
In article <922@maestro.htsa.aha.nl> fransvo@htsa.UUCP (Frans van Otten) writes: >How would you feel about a moderated comp.lang.c.questions group ? >It could stop those wars, making space for real answers. (a) Who's going to moderate it? (b) If there is also an unmoderated group, how do you propose to keep the wars out of it? -- Van Allen, adj: pertaining to | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology deadly hazards to spaceflight. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
fransvo@maestro.htsa.aha.nl (Frans van Otten) (05/24/89)
Henry Spencer writes: >Frans van Otten writes: > >>How would you feel about a moderated comp.lang.c.questions group ? >>It could stop those wars, making space for real answers. > >(a) Who's going to moderate it? Any volunteers ? I would do it myself, but my contract with the school is almost over. Next week I'm no longer officially working here. I will be around a bit, but not enough to moderate such a group. >(b) If there is also an unmoderated group, how do you propose to keep > the wars out of it? That's not important. If someone has a serious question, he or she can ask it in the moderated group. If the group is known as a high quality one, interest in the unmoderated group will cease. -- Frans van Otten | fransvo@maestro.htsa.aha.nl or Algemene Hogeschool Amsterdam | fransvo@htsa.uucp or Technische en Maritieme Faculteit | [[...!]backbone!]htsa!fransvo
anw@nott-cs.UUCP (4) (05/24/89)
In article <1989May23.030223.24871@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <922@maestro.htsa.aha.nl> fransvo@htsa.UUCP (Frans van Otten) writes: >>How would you feel about a moderated comp.lang.c.questions group ? [...] > [...] >(b) If there is also an unmoderated group, how do you propose to keep > the wars out of it? For some time now I've been trying to formulate a proposal for a "semi-moderated" style of group, suitable for "comp.lang.c", "comp.graphics", "sci.maths", "rec.games.chess", and other groups in which novices and experts mix. The idea is: A. Novice asks a question. Detected by "Subject: Blah ... ?". ^ B. Novice tries to reply. "Subject: Re: Blah ... ?". This reply fails. Well, it probably gets posted locally, but when it reaches a "backbone", it is posted to the semi-moderator, dropped in the bit-bucket, bounced, or whatever. A. N. Expert tries to reply. "Subject: Re: Blah ... ?", but *also* has an "Expert: A. N. Expert" line. This works. Follow-ups, by novices or experts, now also work, 'cos they include the "Expert:" line. Thus, all respondents have either to be experts, or to have seen the expert reply. Novices who ask questions without the "?", novices who pretend to be experts, and experts who bungle, are hung, drawn and quartered in the usual way. Articles that aren't questions are posted normally; only the inexpert immediate responses to questions are zapped, but that alone might prevent many of the sillier wars. Details left to the imagination. Comments? -- Andy Walker, Maths Dept., Nott'm Univ., UK. anw@maths.nott.ac.uk
fawcett@steven.COM (fawcett) (05/26/89)
In article <18663@cup.portal.com>, Tim_CDC_Roberts@cup.portal.com writes: > In <2189@thor.acc.stolaf.edu>, mike@stolaf.edu writes: > > > I think that all the noise that has infested this group will go away... > > Disclaimer: not a wizard, just a frustrated reader. > > After a person has amassed a certain amount of experience and moved into the > "wizard" real, I think he has an OBLIGATION to provide intelligent and > understanding replies to less experienced readers. > > So, wizards, what is it you DO want in comp.lang.c? > O.K. I may or may not be a wizard, depending upon the day of the week, but I think that I know what I want out of this newsgroup. I want a place where I can ask or answer questions that are causing specific problems. If the problem is one that can be stated in general terms, then do so, but give an example of what you mean so we can all really understand it. What will reduce the signal to noise ratio here is really very simple netetticute. If the individuals responding to an article will hit the 'r' key instead of the 'f' key, it would help quite a bit. Once an individual has solved their problem, they can post a summarizing answer, if they wish, giving all of the suggested procedures, the reasons they chose to employ the one they did (if any at all), and how it worked. In addition, the people reading this newsgroup should remember that there is no such thing as a stupid question, so *FLAME OFF* here. Just because the answer is intuitively obvious to you does not mean that it is to me. There *will* be a time when *you* have to ask a "stupid" question. John W. Fawcett ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ------ Software Engineer / / / / / / / / / Sierra Geophysics, Inc . ----- / /--- /----- /----- /-----/ P.O. Box 3886 / / / / \ / \ / / Seattle, Wa. 98124 ----- ----- ----- / \ / \ / / Voice: (206) 822-5200 uucp: ..!uw-beaver!sumax!quick!ole!steven!fawcett
karl@haddock.ima.isc.com (Karl Heuer) (05/26/89)
In article <929@maestro.htsa.aha.nl> fransvo@htsa.UUCP (Frans van Otten) writes: |Henry Spencer writes: |>Frans van Otten writes: |>>How would you feel about a moderated comp.lang.c.questions group? |>>It could stop those wars, making space for real answers. |> |>(b) If there is also an unmoderated group, how do you propose to keep |> the wars out of it? | |That's not important. If someone has a serious question, he or she |can ask it in the moderated group. If the group is known as a |high quality one, interest in the unmoderated group will cease. That sounds reasonable, but it doesn't work that way in practice. If you have two groups with essentially the same charter, but only one is moderated, the unmoderated one gets all the traffic. If there's a problem with too much noise here, the solution should be to make comp.lang.c itself moderated. Karl W. Z. Heuer (ima!haddock!karl or karl@haddock.isc.com), The Walking Lint
bill@twwells.uucp (T. William Wells) (05/28/89)
In article <18663@cup.portal.com>, Tim_CDC_Roberts@cup.portal.com writes:
: After a person has amassed a certain amount of experience and moved into the
: "wizard" real, I think he has an OBLIGATION to provide intelligent and
: understanding replies to less experienced readers.
LIKE HELL!
Generosity is not altruism; I will decide how and when I might be
generous. *YOU* have no claim, no moral right, to tell me that I
ought to post anything whatsoever.
Consider, people, the consequence of the proposition that the greater
the ability, the greater the obligation. Do you really want a world
full of mediocrities? Have you considered that that nonsense might be
part of the cause of the state of the good ole USA?
Followups have been directed to alt.dev.null. Any further discussion
should be done through e-mail.
---
Bill { uunet | novavax } !twwells!billpeter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (05/30/89)
In article <613@tuck.nott-cs.UUCP>, anw@nott-cs.UUCP (4) writes: > For some time now I've been trying to formulate a proposal for a > "semi-moderated" style of group [with any wizard a moderator] Sounds like the suggested pseudo-moderated news.admin group with no moderator. The idea being that any news-admin would know how to approve a message in a moderated group. -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation. Business: uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter, peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180. Personal: ...!texbell!sugar!peter, peter@sugar.hackercorp.com.
dlovell@dasys1.UUCP (Douglas Lovell) (05/31/89)
>>>Is it time for comp.lang.c.questions and comp.lang.c.wizards?
If you wanted a good answer to your question, wouldn't you post to "wizards?"
This follow-up went through mail, previously. My apology to the recipient.
--
Douglas Lovell
Big Electric Cat Public UNIX
..!cmcl2!hombre!dasys1!dlovelljcbst3@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (James C. Benz) (06/01/89)
In article <2102@blake.acs.washington.edu] dlarson@blake.acs.washington.edu (Dale Larson) writes: ]In article <4490@alvin.mcnc.org] spl@mcnc.org.UUCP (Steve Lamont) writes: ]]](facetiously) ]]]Is it time for comp.lang.c.questions and comp.lang.c.wizards? ]]]-- ]] ]](not so facetiously) ]]Maybe so. ] ]I think splitting this thing would save a lot of lines in my KILL file!!! ]Would also save time for those who don't want to be bothered by wizard talk, ]and for those wizards who don't have time and/or desire to be bothered by How about comp.lang.c.bsd, comp.lang.c.sysv, comp.lang.c.pc, comp.lang.c.mac? It seems to me that most of the stuff in my kill file has to do with machine dependent stuff, mostly PC and Mac stuff, that has little to do with my usual Sys V environment. -- Jim Benz jcbst3@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu If a modem University of Pittsburgh answers, UCIR (412) 648-5930 hang up!
heilpern@ibd.BRL.MIL (Mark A. Heilpern ) (06/03/89)
Geez, everybody, lighten up, huh? If you don't want to "bother" to help someone's problem, remember: there is always the 'k/K' key, and it's only a keystroke and a few seconds delay. (If you didn't have the few seconds of time on your hands, you wouldn't be reading _any_ Q&A news.groups) --M. (heilpern@brl.mil) Mark A. Heilpern, these are my opinions. c-w--w--w- flames -> /dev/null
mcdonald@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (06/06/89)
>Geez, everybody, lighten up, huh? >If you don't want to "bother" to help someone's problem, remember: there >is always the 'k/K' key, and it's only a keystroke and a few seconds >delay. (If you didn't have the few seconds of time on your hands, you >wouldn't be reading _any_ Q&A news.groups) But, if hit K, the next time around the autosequencer won't be reset and I'll see it all again - and if k, I would have to track down all later replies by hand, like the silly News software. Doug MCDonald