clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive) (05/03/89)
In article <630@marob.MASA.COM> daveh@marob.masa.com (Dave Hammond) writes: >Another person writes: >>but always, at the top of my routines, I: >> pound include studio-h (dancers might include studio-54 :->) The character that looks like: | | --+--+-- | | --+--+-- | | is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: -- / ---+--- ---+--- / ------- (or some more ornate version). How would you like it if I kept saying: dollar include stood eye oh dot aitch (I actually say "hash include ...") ? -- Clive D.W. Feather clive@ixi.uucp IXI Limited ...!mcvax!ukc!acorn!ixi!clive (untested) +44 223 462 131
malloy@nprdc.arpa (Sean Malloy) (05/04/89)
In article <147@ixi.UUCP> clive@ukc.ac.uk (Clive) writes: >The character that looks like: <graphic of character variously called pound, number, hash deleted> >is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. >A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: <graphic of character denoting pounds sterling deleted> >(or some more ornate version). How would you like it if I kept >saying: > dollar include stood eye oh dot aitch >(I actually say "hash include ...") ? The reason the '#' character is called 'pound' is because it has been used to denote a _weight_ in pounds, i.e., 16#, 20#, etc. The character you call a 'pound sign' is properly a 'pounds sterling sign', and denotes an amount of money, just as the "Y with an equals through the upright" is a 'yen sign' and also refers to an amount of money. And a Sudanese pound is referred to as 'SdL', so 'L' would be a 'pound sign' in Sudan for precisely the same reason you claim. Is the British claim to a specific character any better than the Sudanese claim? In usage in America, the '#' sign is called a 'pound sign' through common application. @BEGIN(FLAME) And if you're so bloody righteous about using the proper terminology for characters, why couldn't you take the trouble to determine that the _correct_ name for the '#' character is 'octothorp'? @END(FLAME) Sean Malloy | "The proton absorbs a photon Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | and emits two morons, a San Diego, CA 92152-6800 | lepton, a boson, and a malloy@nprdc.navy.mil | boson's mate. Why did I ever | take high-energy physics?"
desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) (05/04/89)
In article <147@ixi.UUCP> clive@ukc.ac.uk (Clive) writes: >The character that looks like: [...] >is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. The UK has now been metric long enough that some of its citizens have forgotten that there are two types of "pounds" - sterling and avoirdupois. In other words, the following are both legal and mean different things - 3{hash-mark} of flour - about a kilo and a half 3{script-L} of flour - depends on the price you paid Even the CCITT, that most European of bodies (they once defined a "country" to be no more than 1500km from end to end - about the N-S length of Italy), recognizes that the symbol it would prefer to have translated as 'square' has various names - I think they mention 'pound sign' as one of them. >Clive D.W. Feather clive@ixi.uucp >IXI Limited ...!mcvax!ukc!acorn!ixi!clive (untested) > +44 223 462 131 Peter Desnoyers desnoyer@apple.com
wyatt@cfatst.HARVARD.EDU (Bill Wyatt) (05/04/89)
From article <147@ixi.UUCP>, by clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive): > The character that looks like: > > | | > --+--+-- > | | > --+--+-- > | | > > is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. > A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: > > -- > / > ---+--- > ---+--- > / > ------- > > (or some more ornate version). How would you like it if I kept > saying: > dollar include stood eye oh dot aitch > (I actually say "hash include ...") ? Well, that's not a very good rendition of a cursive L with two lines through it... But anyway, the character is formally called an `octothorp'. By the way, it IS commonly used in the US as a `pound' sign. I agree that `hash' may be more widely understood. Bill Wyatt, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory UUCP : {husc6,cmcl2,mit-eddie}!harvard!cfa!wyatt ARPA: wyatt@cfa.harvard.edu SPAN: cfa::wyatt BITNET: wyatt@cfa
Tim_CDC_Roberts@cup.portal.com (05/04/89)
In <147@ixi.UUCP>, From: clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive) >In article <630@marob.MASA.COM> daveh@marob.masa.com (Dave Hammond) writes: >>Another person writes: >>>but always, at the top of my routines, I: >>> pound include studio-h (dancers might include studio-54 :->) ... > ... a "number" sign or a "hash" sign...is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. > A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note... I believe you are mildly mistaken, Clive. Referring to the musical sharp symbol as "pound sign" has the same early commercial roots as referring to the circled-A (@) as "at sign". Your early grocers would write up: 5# apples @ 9c .... $0.45 which is read "5 pounds apples at 9 cents...45 cents." Thus, "pound" refers to "pounds avoirdupois" rather than "pounds sterling". This usage has fallen into disuse, because today's cash registers ring up: 5.03 lbs @ 0.98 / lb Red Delicious .............. 4.92 Tim_CDC_Roberts@cup.portal.com | Control Data... ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!tim_cdc_roberts | ...or it will control you.
dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Rahul Dhesi) (05/05/89)
| | --+--+-- | | --+--+-- | | This is often mislabelled as "pound sign", "number sign", "crosshatch", "hash", etc. "Pound sign" is undesirable because people often confuse between weight and money in this context. "Number sign" is not universal because not everybody uses this sign to mean numbers. (I didn't until I came to the USA, and even now I prefer to spell it out as "number" or abbreviate it to "no." or "no".) "Crosshatch" and "hash" are somewhat descriptive, but not enough. A "crosshatch" pattern is composed of lots of lines, not just four. A "hash" is too vague. There is only one meaning for this figure that is universal the world over, and recognizable by every child. This is the tic-tac-toe game, also called noughts and crosses. The correct name for this figure is therefore the "tac sign" or just the "tac". (Cobol programmers may prefer the full name "tic-tac-toe sign.") This name is especially appropriate because the tic-tac-toe game, like the argument about what this sign should be called, seldom ends in anything but a draw. -- Rahul Dhesi <dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> UUCP: ...!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!dhesi
derek@hsi.UUCP (Derek Lee-Wo) (05/05/89)
In article <147@ixi.UUCP> clive@ukc.ac.uk (Clive) writes: :The character that looks like: : : | | :--+--+-- : | | :--+--+-- : | | : :is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. :A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: The real name of that symbol may not be 'pound', but you'd find most programmers refer to it as pound. After all, pound-include sounds better than number-include :-) -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Derek Lee-Wo, Health Systems International, New Haven, CT 06511. | |E-mail address :- derek@hsi.com ...!yale!hsi!derek | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) (05/05/89)
In article <1558@cfa.cfa.harvard.EDU> wyatt@cfatst.HARVARD.EDU (Bill Wyatt) writes: > >But anyway, the character is formally called an `octothorp'. That's been hashed around on the telecom groups several times, and the conclusion seems to be that 'octothorpe' is a term that was used for a few years by Bell Telephone and then dropped since no one else used it. Peter Desnoyers
clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive) (05/05/89)
Boy, have I started something! I apologise to the readership if the pound/hash/octothorpe stuff has been all done before. In article <1868@skinner.nprdc.arpa> malloy@nprdc.arpa (Sean Malloy) writes: >The reason the '#' character is called 'pound' is because it has been >used to denote a _weight_ in pounds, i.e., 16#, 20#, etc. I had never met this usage until described in an e-mail message this morning. >The character you call a 'pound sign' is properly a 'pounds sterling >sign', and denotes an amount of money, just as the "Y with an equals >through the upright" is a 'yen sign' and also refers to an amount of >money. And a Sudanese pound is referred to as 'SdL', so 'L' would be a >'pound sign' in Sudan for precisely the same reason you claim. Is the >British claim to a specific character any better than the Sudanese claim? And in Italy they use the same graphic for "Lire" (or is it "Lira" ?). No :-) >In usage in America, the '#' sign is called a 'pound sign' through >common application. @BEGIN(FLAME) And if you're so bloody righteous >about using the proper terminology for characters, why couldn't you >take the trouble to determine that the _correct_ name for the '#' >character is 'octothorp'? @END(FLAME) #ifdef FLAME_QUENCHING 1) Because octothorp is a ex-Bellism that no-one ever uses. 2) Because this is an X-Window System environment, and to quote from the X standards: "To the best of our knowledge, ... are from the appropriate ISO or ECMA international standards." ... "035 NUMBER SIGN" "036 DOLLAR SIGN" "162 CENT SIGN" "163 POUND SIGN" "164 CURRENCY SIGN" "165 YEN SIGN" Not an octothorp in sight. Currency sign I have variously seen rendered as a circle with four legs, and as a three-legged swastika (similar to the Isle of Man symbol). #endif /* FLAME_QUENCHING */ -- Clive D.W. Feather clive@ixi.uucp IXI Limited ...!mcvax!ukc!acorn!ixi!clive (untested) +44 223 462 131
apm@hpopd.HP.COM (Andrew Merritt) (05/05/89)
/ hpopd:comp.lang.c / desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) / 5:22 pm May 4, 1989 / >>In article <147@ixi.UUCP> clive@ukc.ac.uk (Clive) writes: >>The character that looks like: [...] >>is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. >The UK has now been metric long enough that some of its citizens have >forgotten that there are two types of "pounds" - sterling and >avoirdupois. Not true: the pound weight is in common daily use in the UK. We just don't use the octothorp character to denote it. The common denotation of a pound weight is 'lb' as in 2lb for 2 pounds. I thought the octothorp meant 'number' in US usage. Andrew
rwhite@nusdhub.UUCP (Robert C. White Jr.) (05/06/89)
in article <147@ixi.UUCP>, clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive) says: [drawing deleted] > is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. > A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: [drawing deleted] > (or some more ornate version). How would you like it if I kept > saying: [stuff about curency deleted... incidently *we* use dollar sign all the time "$"...] Wrong-o! the "#" has a real name: octalthorpe <even if i cant spell it this phonetic representation should do> it is also *correctly* called the "number sign" and "pound sign". Just because you (culutrally) have chosen to use a strange unit name for your currency dson't mean that every refrence to that unit refres to your curency. The symbol you inaccurately claim to mean "pound" is (more correctly) "pound sterling" or "british pound", there are less spesific uses of "pound" then the britsh (extraction?) currency [e.g. a ten pound bag of sugar, four pounds of this, 22000 punds of that]. Where ever units of weight (not spesifically related to currency) are being discussed in the "english" system [i think that is the real name] the symbol "#" MEANS POUND! Rob. (pet peves based on inaccuracy are just stoopid)
cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (05/06/89)
In article <147@ixi.UUCP#, clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive) writes: # In article <630@marob.MASA.COM# daveh@marob.masa.com (Dave Hammond) writes: # #Another person writes: # ##but always, at the top of my routines, I: # ## pound include studio-h (dancers might include studio-54 :-#) # # The character that looks like: # # | | # --+--+-- # | | # --+--+-- # | | # # is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. Nonsense. It's an "octothorpe". (My posting is no more nitpicky than your posting). -- Clayton E. Cramer {pyramid,pixar,tekbspa}!optilink!cramer Governments that don't trust most people with weapons, deserve no trust. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer? You must be kidding! No company would hold opinions like mine!
apc@cbnews.ATT.COM (Alan P. Curtis) (05/06/89)
In article <7104@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Rahul Dhesi) writes: } } | | } --+--+-- } | | } --+--+-- } | | } }There is only one meaning for this figure that is universal the world }over, and recognizable by every child. This is the tic-tac-toe game, }also called noughts and crosses. } }The correct name for this figure is therefore the "tac sign" or just }the "tac". Oh, but I know the game (as you mention) as noughts and crosses, so your "proof" is defeated, by your proof... apc -- Alan P. Curtis | AT&T Bell Labs | apc@cblpe.ATT.COM
carlp@frigg.iscs.com (Carl Paukstis) (05/06/89)
I seem to remember taking a poll a couple of years ago, partly to draw the "how do you pronounce 'char'" discussion AWAY from comp.lang.c and into rec.humor. With this repost of the results, I hope to again see the death of this subject thread, thank you. ============== reprinted (edited) from: ============== ==Message-ID: <311@iscintl.UUCP> ==Date: 30 Oct 87 22:26:27 GMT I had 37 responses; the pronunciations are listed in order of frequency mentioned among those responses, most common first. ! = bang | shriek | ballbat | pling * = star | splat | asterisk $ = dollar | dollar sign | ding | string # = sharp | pound | hash | number | gardengate | gate | oof | octoharp \ = backslash | bash | reverse virgule . = dot | point | period - = dash | minus | hyphen ^ = caret | hat | up-arrow | boink ? = question mark | huh | question | query | kwes | quiz | quark = = equals | gets | = or | bar | pipe | tube | mark | whack @ = at | snable-a (note 3) % = percent | shift-5 | grape + = plus _ = underscore | underline | underbar & = and | ampersand | amper | donald duck (note 1) ( = left paren | paren | open paren | left banana | banana ) = right paren | close paren | right banana | banana | thesis { = left curly brace | left brace | open brace | open curly bracket | brace | left Tuborg (note 2) | open curly brace | curly brace } = right curly brace | close brace | close curly bracket | right Tuborg (note 2) | close curly brace | uncurly brace [ = left bracket | open bracket | bracket | open square bracket | edged parenthesis begin (note 3) ] = right bracket | close bracket | close square bracket | unbracket | edged parenthesis end (note 3) ~ = twiddle | squiggle | tilde | tildee < = less than | left angle bracket | sucks (note 4) | in arrow > = greater that | right angle bracket | blows (note 4) | out arrow ` = back tick | back ping | back quote | accent grave ' = tick | ping | quote | single quote " = quote | double quote | double ping / = slash | virgule : = colon ; = semicolon , = comma Notes: 1) From Danish "Anders And", sounds like ampersand, means Donald Duck. 2) From the advertising for a well-known beverage (Danish). 3) Imported from Denmark, your mileage may vary. 4) As in "cat sucks stdin, blows stdout". ============== Can we go back to C now, please? -- Carl Paukstis "I'm the NRA" | DOMAIN: carlp@iscuva.ISCS.COM <political message goes here> | UUCP: ...uunet!iscuva!carlp | GEnie: carlp BIX: carlp I speak for myself, not my employer. | Ma Bell: +1 509 927 5600 x5321
pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg) (05/06/89)
In article <7104@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Rahul Dhesi) writes:
=
= | |
= --+--+--
= | |
= --+--+--
= | |
=
=This is often mislabelled as "pound sign", "number sign", "crosshatch",
="hash", etc.
=
<examples omitted>
=The correct name for this figure is therefore the "tac sign" or just
=the "tac". (Cobol programmers may prefer the full name "tic-tac-toe
=sign.")
=
From the (universal) world of music comes the name "sharp" for the "#" symbol.
sharp include ess tee dee eye oh dot aitch. Hmmmm.
--
Pete Holsberg UUCP: {...!rutgers!}princeton!mccc!pjh
Mercer College CompuServe: 70240,334
1200 Old Trenton Road GEnie: PJHOLSBERG
Trenton, NJ 08690 Voice: 1-609-586-4800gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (05/06/89)
Well, as long as the net bandwidth has already been saturated with this, please note that a sharp symbol is visually distinct from an octothorpe.
news@omepd.UUCP (News Account) (05/06/89)
-------- From: mcg@mipon2.intel.com (Steven McGeady) Path: mipon2!mcg In article <7104@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Rahul Dhesi) writes: > >This is often mislabelled as "pound sign", "number sign", "crosshatch", >"hash", etc. > >The correct name for this figure is therefore ... the "tac". Isn't there anyone other than me (and the other late-70's hackers at Reed) who call the '#' a "sharp"? This name is unique and has precedent and broad acceptance in another field. S. McGeady
news@ism780c.isc.com (News system) (05/06/89)
In article <30104@apple.Apple.COM> desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) writes: >In article <1558@cfa.cfa.harvard.EDU> wyatt@cfatst.HARVARD.EDU (Bill Wyatt) writes: >> >>But anyway, the character is formally called an `octothorp'. > >That's been hashed around on the telecom groups several times, and the >conclusion seems to be that 'octothorpe' is a term that was used for a >few years by Bell Telephone and then dropped since no one else used it. > > Peter Desnoyers Believe it or not, there is a document for ANSII. It gives the names for each of the characters in the character set. Some examples: # pound sign ^ circumflex \ reverse slant _ underline ~ overline (or tilda) ` accent grave @ comercial at sign Marv Rubinstein
mat@mole-end.UUCP (Mark A Terribile) (05/06/89)
In article <147@ixi.UUCP>, clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive) writes: > ... > > ... > >> pound include studio-h (dancers might include studio-54 :->) > The character that looks like [ # ] > is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. > A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: > -- > / > ---+--- > ---+--- > / > ------- > (or some more ornate version). How would you like it if I kept > saying: > dollar include stood eye oh dot aitch Sorry, Clive. I have before me Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, Eighth Edition. It is open to the section on ``Signs and Symbols.'' Under the heading ``Business'' I find # number if it precedes a number <track #3>; pounds if it follows <a 5# sack of sugar> In other words, it's pounds aviordupois, not pounds sterling. The usage is legitimate, although perhaps we should write include# and if# The late Ma Bell would have liked us to call it an octothorpe--in fact, I think in some parts of AT&T they still call it that when it appears on a Touch-Tone (is that still a registered Service and Trade Mark?) telephone set. I can tell you that the announcements built into some of their products instruct the user to ``Press five, followed by the Pound Sign.'' -- (This man's opinions are his own.) From mole-end Mark Terribile
einari@rhi.hi.is (Einar Indridason) (05/06/89)
I just thought I should give my $0.02 worth. Why don't we just pronounce it as: "ASCII-THIRTY-FIVE" ??????????????????????????????????????????????? (Or where applicapleble: EBDIC-whatever) -- To quote Alfred E. Neuman: "What! Me worry????" Internet: einari@rhi.hi.is UUCP: ..!mcvax!hafro!rhi!einari
emmonsl@csusac.uucp (L. Scott Emmons) (05/07/89)
Here are a few other (humorous, I hope) names for characters:
! excl, exclam, bang, shriek, wow.
" Rabbit ears.
# Hash mark, mesh, splat, crunch, pigpen.
$ Dollar.
% Doubleohseven.
& Ampersand. (This one is already so silly that no slang term is needed!)
' Single quote, forward quote, spark.
( Wax.
( ) Parens (seperatly called just OPEN and CLOSE).
) Wane.
* Star, splat. (sometime "gear" because it looks like a little cogwheel)
+ Intersection.
, Tail.
Worm.
. Period, dot, point, spot.
/ Slash, forward slash, slat.
: Twospot.
; SEMI.
< Angle. (The two character arrow "<" or ">" is called "angleworm")
< Less than, left ANGLE BRACKET, left BROKET.
= Equals, halfmesh.
> Greater than, right ANGLE BRACKET, right BROKET.
> Right angle.
? QUES, query.
? What.
@ Atsign, at, whirlpool.
[ U turn, Insquare.
\ Backslash, backslat, virgule.
] U turn back, Outsquare.
^ Caret. ("uparrow" obsolete), shark. (or simply "shark fin"), uptick.
_ Backarrow, Underbar, flatworm.
` Backquote, backspark.
{ Embrace, Curly.
} Bracelet, Larry.
{ } Curly braces, curly brackets, SQUIGGLE BRACKETS.
| Spike, vertical bar, pipe.
~ TWIDDLE, SQUIGGLE, SQIGGLE.
lse
"No sig's enough sig for me"Chris.Maidt@p8.f30.n147.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Maidt) (05/08/89)
RD> RD> RD> | | RD> --+--+-- RD> | | RD> --+--+-- RD> | | RD> RD> This is often mislabelled as "pound sign", "number sign", "crosshatch", RD> "hash", etc. It is commonly refered to as an octathorpe (sp). -- Chris Maidt - via FidoNet node 1:147/10 UUCP: ...!uokmax!metnet!30.8!Chris.Maidt INTERNET: Chris.Maidt@p8.f30.n147.z1.FIDONET.ORG
msb@sq.com (Mark Brader) (05/08/89)
> Believe it or not, there is a document for ANSII. As I said a few weeks ago, please do not confuse these similar acronyms: ASCII - the character set (American Standard Code for Information Interchange) ANSI - the standards body (American National Standards Institute) ANS - an ANSI standard (American National Standard) There is no ANSII. Yes, there is an ANS for ASCII. Specifically, it's ANS X3.4-1977. And where you say... It actually has... > # pound sign Number Sign > ^ circumflex Circumflex > \ reverse slant Reverse Slant > _ underline Underline > ~ overline (or tilda) Tilde > ` accent grave Opening Single Quotation Mark (Grave Accent) > @ comercial at sign Commercial At I'd like to cite this in support of what Clive Feather said to start this flame war, since my position is the same as his, but to be consistent I'd then have to start pronouncing the character \ as "reverse slant", and somehow I don't care to do so. Please, people. This is a simple issue of religion and NOT FOR COMP.LANG.C! -- Mark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto "Remember the Golgafrinchans" utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com -- Pete Granger This article is in the public domain.
diamond@diamond.csl.sony.junet (Norman Diamond) (05/08/89)
In article <954@krafla.rhi.hi.is> einari@rhi.hi.is (Einar Indridason) writes: >I just thought I should give my $0.02 worth. Why don't we just pronounce it You mean your #0.01 worth :-) >as: "ASCII-THIRTY-FIVE" ??????????????????????????????????????????????? Speaking of which, how do you pronounce ASCII? I always thought that was what you put in the lock to get into your girlfriend's apartment. (Stolen from some published source long ago...) -- Norman Diamond, Sony Computer Science Lab (diamond%csl.sony.co.jp@relay.cs.net) The above opinions are my own. | Why are programmers criticized for If they're also your opinions, | re-inventing the wheel, when car you're infringing my copyright. | manufacturers are praised for it?
hugh@ecrcvax.UUCP (Hugh Grant) (05/08/89)
In article <30092@apple.Apple.COM> desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) writes: >In article <147@ixi.UUCP> clive@ukc.ac.uk (Clive) writes: >>The character that looks like: [...] >>is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. > >The UK has now been metric long enough that some of its citizens have >forgotten that there are two types of "pounds" - sterling and >avoirdupois. In other words, the following are both legal and mean >different things - > Hmmm... I'm not so sure about that. Pounds (weight) as well as the other "imperial" measurements are still widespread. > 3{hash-mark} of flour - about a kilo and a half > 3{script-L} of flour - depends on the price you paid The more usual symbol for a pound is "lb". I have never seen a hash-mark used as a pound-weight symbol outside of the US. (Does this really have anything to do with C? How about a "units" group? :-) -- Hugh Grant, ICL ITC. hugh@ecrcvax.uucp currently at: European Computer-Industry Research Centre, Arabellstr. 17, Munich
mark@drd.UUCP (Mark Lawrence) (05/08/89)
dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Rahul Dhesi) wrote: [graphic elided] } This is often mislabelled as "pound sign", "number sign", "crosshatch", } "hash", etc. What about "sharp"?
thomson@hub.toronto.edu (Brian Thomson) (05/08/89)
In article <1334@nusdhub.UUCP> rwhite@nusdhub.UUCP (Robert C. White Jr.) writes: >Just because you (culutrally) have chosen to use a strange unit >name for your currency dson't mean that every refrence to that >unit refres to your curency. Noting that the words 'peso' and 'lira' both mean 'pound', I'd say that those of us whose currency is not named after a unit of weight are the ones with the strange units. Yours for cultural kulturny, -- Brian Thomson, CSRI Univ. of Toronto utcsri!uthub!thomson, thomson@hub.toronto.edu
dbrooks@osf.OSF.ORG (David Brooks) (05/09/89)
In article <27109@ism780c.isc.com> marv@ism780.UUCP (Marvin Rubenstein) writes: > >Believe it or not, there is a document for ANSII. It gives the names for >each of the characters in the character set. Some examples: > > # pound sign > ^ circumflex > \ reverse slant > _ underline > ~ overline (or tilda) > ` accent grave > @ comercial at sign > > Marv Rubinstein Damn. I lost my ASCII definition (X3.4). But in the newer ANS 7-bit and 8-bit multilingual graphic character set standard it says: # NUMBER SIGN And in ISO646, the international equivalent to X3.4: <curly-L> POUND SIGN # NUMBER SIGN I lived in England for 33 years, and I never ever ever ever saw # used for pounds weight -- always lb. I still find # = pound mildly irritating, but I defer to Websters for American usage. My theory was that the confusion arises from this very ISO standard, which allows 2/3 to be either # or pound-sterling. Consequently some British teletypes (yes, I did say 33 years) put pound sterling on the shift-3 key, and -- well, you can imagine the rest. But this theory has had cold water poured on it by the originator of the question. If you are reading this on such an ancient British teletype, you are by now very confused. -- David Brooks dbrooks@osf.org Open Software Foundation uunet!osf.org!dbrooks 11 Cambridge Center Personal views, not necessarily those Cambridge, MA 02142, USA of OSF, its sponsors or members.
ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Raymond Dunn) (05/09/89)
In article <147@ixi.UUCP> clive@ukc.ac.uk (Clive) writes: > >The character that looks like: > # >is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. >A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: > etc. Sorry Clive, but your culture is showing! You can't blame this one on US insensitivity etc etc..... Sterling is not the only sort of "pounds", and the N. American naming of "#" has nothing to do with monetary units!! The fact that the pound sign appears on a US keyboard where the sterling symbol appears on a British keyboard (shift-3) is purely coincidental and, although adding wonderfully to the confusion, believe me or nay, has *nothing* to do with it being called "pound"! -- Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ..!uunet!philmtl!ray Philips Electronics Ltd. | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext: 2347 600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | FAX : (514) 744-6455 St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | TLX : 05-824090
derek@hsi.UUCP (Derek Lee-Wo) (05/09/89)
In article <782@osf.OSF.ORG> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes: >I lived in England for 33 years, and I never ever ever ever saw # used >for pounds weight -- always lb. I still find # = pound mildly >irritating, but I defer to Websters for American usage. I think using # for weight is probably an American tradition. I'm from a Commonwealth country, and like you, I've never used # for weight. We always used lbs. Before I started College in the US (3 years ago), I always called the symbol '#' hash. Since I've been here, I've been calling it a pound. All of these discussions seem rather pointless. If I were to say, type a hash, or a pound, or a number sign, everyone would know what I meant, even though we all have our prefered name for it. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Derek Lee-Wo, Health Systems International, New Haven, CT 06511. | |E-mail address :- derek@hsi.com ...!yale!hsi!derek | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
derek@hsi.UUCP (Derek Lee-Wo) (05/09/89)
In article <18.24657354@metnet.FIDONET.ORG> Chris.Maidt@p8.f30.n147.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Maidt) writes: - RD> | | - RD> --+--+-- - RD> | | - RD> --+--+-- - RD> | | - RD> This is often mislabelled as "pound sign", "number sign", "crosshatch", - RD> "hash", etc. - -It is commonly refered to as an octathorpe (sp). I would hate to be reading my code and have to say 'octathorpe include' whenever I was reading '#include' -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Derek Lee-Wo, Health Systems International, New Haven, CT 06511. | |E-mail address :- derek@hsi.com ...!yale!hsi!derek | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
malloy@nprdc.arpa (Sean Malloy) (05/09/89)
In article <4080002@hpopd.HP.COM> apm@hpopd.HP.COM (Andrew Merritt) writes: >/ hpopd:comp.lang.c / desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) / 5:22 pm May 4, 1989 / >>The UK has now been metric long enough that some of its citizens have >>forgotten that there are two types of "pounds" - sterling and >>avoirdupois. >Not true: the pound weight is in common daily use in the UK. We just don't use >the octothorp character to denote it. The common denotation of a pound weight >is 'lb' as in 2lb for 2 pounds. I thought the octothorp meant 'number' in US >usage. The usage of '#' for 'pounds' stems from the early transaction-tape cash registers, which used adding machine internals for printing the register tape. The adding machine print hardware was only capable of printing the numeric digits and a limited selection of other characters -- add, subtract, multiply, divide, the '#' character to indicate a total. Because they needed a character to indicate pounds weight, and the '#' character wasn't being used for anything else, it was drafted into use as the 'pound character'. Other cash register manufacturers copied the usage, and it spread into common use. Sean Malloy | "The proton absorbs a photon Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | and emits two morons, a San Diego, CA 92152-6800 | lepton, a boson, and a malloy@nprdc.navy.mil | boson's mate. Why did I ever | take high-energy physics?"
diamond@diamond.csl.sony.junet (Norman Diamond) (05/10/89)
In article <1334@nusdhub.UUCP> rwhite@nusdhub.UUCP (Robert C. White Jr.) writes: >>Just because you (culutrally) have chosen to use a strange unit >>name for your currency dson't mean that every refrence to that >>unit refres to your curency. In article <8905081532.AA02862@beaches.hub.toronto.edu> thomson@hub.toronto.edu (Brian Thomson) writes: >Noting that the words 'peso' and 'lira' both mean 'pound', I'd say that >those of us whose currency is not named after a unit of weight are >the ones with the strange units. The Thaler was a troy ounce of silver, of greater purity than the Sterling pound of silver. The U.S.A. didn't choose a strange unit, just a strange spelling. And they've only inflated it 30 times (i.e. down to 3.3 original cents) instead of 100 times. -- Norman Diamond, Sony Computer Science Lab (diamond%csl.sony.co.jp@relay.cs.net) The above opinions are my own. | Why are programmers criticized for If they're also your opinions, | re-inventing the wheel, when car you're infringing my copyright. | manufacturers are praised for it?
scm@datlog.co.uk ( Steve Mawer ) (05/10/89)
In article <1334@nusdhub.UUCP> rwhite@nusdhub.UUCP (Robert C. White Jr.) writes: >Where ever units of weight (not spesifically related to currency) >are being discussed in the "english" system [i think that is the real >name] the symbol "#" MEANS POUND! But not, of course, in England. Whose language is it anyway? :-) -- Steve C. Mawer <scm@datlog.co.uk> or < {backbone}!ukc!datlog!scm > Voice: +44 1 863 0383 (x2153)
bengsig@oracle.nl (Bjorn Engsig) (05/10/89)
:-) Why don't we all call the # for an ESATVEL being EqualSignAndTwoVErticalLines :-) No, lets' stop it. -- Bjorn Engsig, ORACLE Europe \ / "Hofstadter's Law: It always takes Path: mcvax!orcenl!bengsig X longer than you expect, even if you Domain: bengsig@oracle.nl / \ take into account Hofstadter's Law"
ked@garnet.berkeley.edu (Earl H. Kinmonth) (05/10/89)
>>Noting that the words 'peso' and 'lira' both mean 'pound', I'd say that >>those of us whose currency is not named after a unit of weight are >>the ones with the strange units. Yen means circular, presumably after the shape of coins. If you find yourself in possession of a large quantity of yen and are repulsed by having money not named after a unit of weight, I'll be happy to releave you of your burden, and I won't charge you for doing so. :) I'll take the "strange" yen AND THE ECONOMY BEHIND IT over peso, lira, pounds, or dollars and the economies associated with each.
bright@Data-IO.COM (Walter Bright) (05/11/89)
In article <8905081532.AA02862@beaches.hub.toronto.edu> thomson@hub.toronto.edu (Brian Thomson) writes: >In article <1334@nusdhub.UUCP> rwhite@nusdhub.UUCP (Robert C. White Jr.) writes: >>Just because you (culutrally) have chosen to use a strange unit >>name for your currency dson't mean that every refrence to that >>unit refres to your curency. >Noting that the words 'peso' and 'lira' both mean 'pound', I'd say that >those of us whose currency is not named after a unit of weight are >the ones with the strange units. The history of the word 'dollar' is: There is a valley in Austria, I forget the name, where there was a very rich silver mine in medieval times. The silver was minted into local coins, called '<name of valley>talers' (the German word for valley is 'tal'). This was obviously shortened to 'taler'. The most popular currency in the American colonies was the Spanish 'piece of eight', also called a 'dollar', the englishification of 'taler'. The fathers of the Constitution merely codified existing practice. (Ever wonder why a quarter is 'two bits'? Remember a dollar is a 'piece of eight'?) This has, of course, absolutely nothing to do with comp.lang.c!
news@ism780c.isc.com (News system) (05/11/89)
In article <4080002@hpopd.HP.COM> apm@hpopd.HP.COM (Andrew Merritt) writes: > I thought the octothorp meant 'number' in US usage. > >Andrew I believe the word 'octothorp' never gained currency. I could not find it in any of the four dictionaries that I looked in. (anyone have an OED handy?) I hope this lays the topic to rest. Quoting form Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary: # number if it procedes a numeral <track #3>; pounds if it follows <a 5# sack of sugar> So the way to pronounce #define, is "pound define" (at least in American Engilish :-) Marv Rubinstein
bill@twwells.uucp (T. William Wells) (05/12/89)
In article <24247@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> ked@garnet.berkeley.edu (Earl H. Kinmonth) writes:
: >>Noting that the words 'peso' and 'lira' both mean 'pound', I'd say that
: >>those of us whose currency is not named after a unit of weight are
: >>the ones with the strange units.
:
: Yen means circular, presumably after the shape of coins. If you find
: yourself in possession of a large quantity of yen and are repulsed by
: having money not named after a unit of weight, I'll be happy to releave
: you of your burden, and I won't charge you for doing so. :)
:
: I'll take the "strange" yen AND THE ECONOMY BEHIND IT over peso, lira,
: pounds, or dollars and the economies associated with each.
There you go, spouting nonsense over the net. According to _The
Economist_, 5 May 1989, p.61:
GDP per person person hour
employed worked
USA 150 140 130
Canada 140 130 115
W. Germany 110 115 105
Japan 105 95 65
France 105 120 115
These figures are for 1986 and are approximate as they are
taken from a bar-like chart. Britain is taken as 100, Italian
figures are left out due to the uncertainties in the hidden
economy.
The numbers tell the tale: by any of these measures, the USA was the
most productive of the countries; Japan was either the least
productive or the second least.
Why then do the Japanese do so well in spite of their low
productivity? Well, though they have low productivity per head, they
work more hours. Furthermore, while most of their economy is
amazingly inefficient, their manufacturing sector is anything but.
Note that I'm not putting the Japanese down; the growth figures for
some sectors of their economy are rather impressive. (No, I don't
have the figures handy.) But the idealization of the Japanese economy
that one sees so often is just plain bullshit.
Followups have been directed to talk.politics.misc.
---
Bill { uunet | novavax } !twwells!billked@garnet.berkeley.edu (Earl H. Kinmonth) (05/12/89)
[Assertion that major monetary units are based on weight. Observation that yen means circular. Yen represents stronger economy than those with monetary units named for weight. Would be economist's assertion of Japanese economic inefficiency.] >There you go, spouting nonsense over the net. According to _The ------------------| I'm impressed at your level of expertise on economic issues, especially US-Japan comparisons. How did you arrive it at? You seem to know so much more than I do. My feeble background is BA (economics) 1968, BBA (corporate finance), PhD Japanese History (1975). Graduate study University of Tokyo (economics) 1971-1974, 1981-1982, Kobe University 1984-1985 (economics). [table deleted] > >The numbers tell the tale: by any of these measures, the USA was the Your faith in numbers is touching. It is also naive. The counting methods used for developing "hours worked" (actually compensated hours) tend to inflate Japanese data. Various breaks and non-work time that is not included in US data is included in the Japanese. Also, the compensation system is different. White-collar workers up through management levels are compensated by hourly calculation. >most productive of the countries; Japan was either the least >productive or the second least. > >Why then do the Japanese do so well in spite of their low >productivity? Well, though they have low productivity per head, they >work more hours. Furthermore, while most of their economy is I seriously doubt this. Based on six years life in Japan, I never had the sense that Japanese WORKED long hours. They are often at the workplace for long hours, but the fraction of the time spent working is considerably less than 100 percent, especially in small business, say seventy percent or so. >amazingly inefficient, their manufacturing sector is anything but. ------| Compared to what? The retail sector is certainly less efficient measured by price of goods. Whether it is less efficient in an economic sense depends on the value you attach to service and convenience. >Note that I'm not putting the Japanese down; the growth figures for >some sectors of their economy are rather impressive. (No, I don't GDP (gross domestic product): four times US growth rates for 1950s-1970s, about twice for the 1980s. >have the figures handy.) But the idealization of the Japanese economy >that one sees so often is just plain bullshit. Do I detect a bit of bruised nationalistic sentiment here? >Followups have been directed to talk.politics.misc. After you have had the last word? No way! If you find the subject matter inappropriate to the original group, you should have posted your own drivel to talk.politics.misc in the first place. >Bill { uunet | novavax } !twwells!bill Earl H. Kinmonth History Department University of California, Davis Davis, California 95616 916-752-1636 (2300-0800 PDT for FAX) 916-752-0776 (secretary) ucbvax!ucdavis!ucdked!cck (email) cc-dnet.ucdavis.edu [128.120.2.251] (request ucdked, login as guest)
cowan@marob.MASA.COM (John Cowan) (05/13/89)
In article <1977@dataio.Data-IO.COM> bright@dataio.Data-IO.COM (Walter Bright) writes: >The history of the word 'dollar' is: > >There is a valley in Austria, I forget the name, where there was a very >rich silver mine in medieval times. The silver was minted into local coins, >called '<name of valley>talers' (the German word for valley is 'tal'). Joachimstal, the (town of the) valley of the River Joachim.
gorpong@teleng.uucp (Gordon C. Galligher) (05/14/89)
In article <24357@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> ked@garnet.berkeley.edu (Earl H. Kinmonth) writes: [...back and forth about Japanese economy vs. American, telling us how long he worked in Japan....] BILL>Followups have been directed to talk.politics.misc. EARL> EARL>After you have had the last word? No way! If you find the EARL>subject matter inappropriate to the original group, you should have EARL>posted your own drivel to talk.politics.misc in the first place. I respect the fact that both of you have opinions on things, but I have to agree with Bill for following up to talk.politics.misc. I could have really cared less WHERE he directed followups to, but they certainly do NOT belong in comp.lang.c. The economy of Japan, America, Great Britain, etc. ad nauseum, although interesting, has NOTHING to do with the C language. If I am thinking correctly, comp.lang.c stands for discussions/questions/etc on the C programming language, not on economics lessons. Can we please stop both of your drivel on this thread in this group!? :-(. Don't flame me for this, it's not worth it. (Do it by mail, not news, please). -- Gordon. Gordon C. Galligher <|> ...!uunet!telxon!gorpong <|> gorpong@teleng.uucp.uu.net Telxon Corporation <|> "Captain, I hardly believe that insults are within your Akron, Ohio, 44313 <|> prerogative as my commanding officer" - Spock (216) 867-3700 (3512)<|> (City on the Edge of Forever (Starring Joan Collins))
stephen@ziebmef.uucp (Stephen M. Dunn) (05/14/89)
In article <147@ixi.UUCP> clive@ukc.ac.uk (Clive) writes: The character that looks like: | | --+--+-- | | --+--+-- | | is a "number" sign or a "hash" sign. It is NOT repeat NOT a pound sign. A pound sign is what appears on a five pound note, and looks like: -- / ---+--- ---+--- / ------- [end of extracted text from previous article] Sorry, you're wrong on statement 1 and right on statement 2. Both of the above symbols (BTW, congrats on managing to draw them in ASCII ... no mean feat) _are_ pound signs, although a multitude of other names exist for the first one. Now that we've cleared that up, let's get back to discussing C rather than discussing what we call the little glyphs we use to represent information. If you want more information on such symbols, check out your local library - I'm sure it will contain enough descriptions of alphabets to satisfy most everybody. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ! Stephen M. Dunn stephen@ziebmef.UUCP ! DISCLAIMER: Who'd ever ! ! Take off to the Great White North eh, ya hosehead ! claim such dumb ideas? ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gis@datlog.co.uk ( Ian Stewartson ) (05/17/89)
In article <27310@ism780c.isc.com> marv@ism780.UUCP (Marvin Rubenstein) writes: >In article <4080002@hpopd.HP.COM> apm@hpopd.HP.COM (Andrew Merritt) writes: >> I thought the octothorp meant 'number' in US usage. >I believe the word 'octothorp' never gained currency. I could not find it >in any of the four dictionaries that I looked in. (anyone have an OED handy?) I had a look in the Shorter OED (and Ency. Britannia) which give no definition for # (but then I could be looking in the wrong areas). Pound is Sterling when used with the scripted L character (with two horizontal lines). In passing, I noticed that the SOED defines a dollar with two vertical lines and not the single line on my keyboard. I always thought it was hash include (or even just include). Regards Ian Stewartson Data Logic Ltd.
bph@buengc.BU.EDU (Blair P. Houghton) (05/19/89)
In article <2015@dlvax2.datlog.co.uk> gis@datlog.co.uk ( Ian Stewartson ) writes: >In passing, I noticed that the SOED defines a dollar with two vertical lines >and not the single line on my keyboard. This is misc.misc material, but I don't dare open that floodgate... we'd be discussing how David is doing under that mountain of postcards within the week. Okay. Look at a T-bill. Don't got one? neither do I. It was a joke. Look close at the old-style federal checks (is it on the new one), although my description should be enough: that S// sort of $ is actually an S with a U drawn over it. The rest is the history of degenerated graphics. --Blair "And here are all these loons writing alphabetics with meaningless slashes through them just to copy..."
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (05/19/89)
In article <2015@dlvax2.datlog.co.uk>, gis@datlog.co.uk ( Ian Stewartson ) writes: > In passing, I noticed that the SOED defines a dollar with two vertical lines > and not the single line on my keyboard. The US dollar is supposed to have 2 vertical lines (it's derived from overstriking U and S). The dollar symbol with one vertical line is actually the Australian dollar sign (derived from overprinting A and S and deciding that it looks too much like the US dollar sign, and so simplifying it). All rather academic at this point. -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation. Business: uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter, peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180. Personal: ...!texbell!sugar!peter, peter@sugar.hackercorp.com.
diamond@diamond.csl.sony.junet (Norman Diamond) (05/20/89)
In article <4238@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: In article <2015@dlvax2.datlog.co.uk>, gis@datlog.co.uk ( Ian Stewartson ) writes: >> In passing, I noticed that the SOED defines a dollar with two vertical lines >> and not the single line on my keyboard. That is correct. Some makers of typewriters (remember those?) and newspaper typefaces (remember those?) decided that it was too much effort to engrave two parallel bars so close to each other, so they'd save a few pennies per typewriter (or how much per newspaper) by simplifying the graphic. Unfortunately that has spread. The foreigner's symbol for yen, and the symbol for Filipino peso, still include two parallel bars, though the underlying character is not S. I believe that the $ symbol for peso in Mexico and other places (I think Spain) might still have two bars. >The US dollar is supposed to have 2 vertical lines Yes. >(it's derived from overstriking U and S). No. When the $ symbol was copied, the concept of "United States" had not been invented yet. >The dollar symbol with one vertical line is actually >the Australian dollar sign (derived from overprinting A and S and deciding >that it looks too much like the US dollar sign, and so simplifying it). That's cute. No one else was afraid that their currency symbol looked too much like peso. >All rather academic at this point. Yes. -- Norman Diamond, Sony Computer Science Lab (diamond%csl.sony.co.jp@relay.cs.net) The above opinions are my own. | Why are programmers criticized for If they're also your opinions, | re-implementing the wheel, when car you're infringing my copyright. | manufacturers are praised for it?
pmb@swituc.UUCP (Pat Berry) (05/20/89)
I, for one, have to pay to receive news. I expect C-related articles, not your incessant ravings about what to call a pound sign. MOVE THAT CR.P ELSEWHERE!!! (or pay my logon bills)
cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (05/24/89)
In article <2910@buengc.BU.EDU>, bph@buengc.BU.EDU (Blair P. Houghton) writes: > In article <2015@dlvax2.datlog.co.uk> gis@datlog.co.uk ( Ian Stewartson ) writes: # #In passing, I noticed that the SOED defines a dollar with two vertical lines # #and not the single line on my keyboard. # # Look close at the old-style federal checks (is it on the new one), although # my description should be enough: that S// sort of $ is actually an S # with a U drawn over it. The rest is the history of degenerated graphics. # # --Blair When my father was in school 1916-1928, he was taught to write a dollar sign as "U" on top of "S". -- Clayton E. Cramer {pyramid,pixar,tekbspa}!optilink!cramer Assault rifle possession is a victimless crime. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer? You must be kidding! No company would hold opinions like mine!
pat@mirror.TMC.COM (06/01/89)
Hash is something that you eat in the morning.
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (06/08/89)
In article <236100016@mirror> pat@mirror.TMC.COM writes: >Hash is something that you eat in the morning. Or smoke, if you're so fortunate as to live in the Netherlands ... -- richard -- * "We must hang together, gentlemen ... else, we shall most assuredly * * hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, 1776 * * * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho *