[comp.lang.c] Day of week routine

larry@zeek.UUCP (Larry Podmolik) (05/16/89)

I need a C function that, given a date, would return what day of the
week it fell on.  Of course, I didn't think to save it at the time.

I seem to remember this coming up in comp.lang.c, but I can't be sure.
If anybody out there has this, could you please e-mail it to me?

Thanks in advance,

Larry

kar@cs.rit.edu (05/19/89)

In article <234@zeek.UUCP> larry@zeek.UUCP (Larry Podmolik) writes:
>I need a C function that, given a date, would return what day of the
>week it fell on.  ...

	Check out the February 1979 issue of Interface Age (page 75-79).
They give algorithms for all sorts of time/date problems.  I used one
to do what you want to do, and needed only the additional knowledge of
today's date and today's day of the week.

	Kenneth A. Reek
	Rochester Institute of Technology
	{harvard,rutgers}!rochester!ritcv!kar

doug@xdos.UUCP (Doug Merritt) (05/22/89)

In article <234@zeek.UUCP> larry@zeek.UUCP (Larry Podmolik) writes:
>I need a C function that, given a date, would return what day of the
>week it fell on.  ...

Try this:
	((year * 1.25) + (day-of-the-year) + constant) modulo 7

...where day-of-the-year is obtained by adding day-of-month to sum
of days in each month prior to month-of-year, and I forget the exact
value of constant, but it's trivial to obtain by using the formula
on today's date, and seeing what adjustment is needed (it really is
a constant).

An adjustment for the switchover from the Julian to the Gregorian
calendar may be needed depending on the era and country of interest.

A variation on this formula (involving a table of constants for each
month in place of day of the year) can be used to easily *mentally*
calculate day of the week. All calculations can be done modulo 7,
which makes it easier.

The factor of 1.25 is what makes it work despite leap years.
	Doug
-- 
Doug Merritt		{pyramid,apple}!xdos!doug
Member, Crusaders for a Better Tomorrow		Professional Wildeyed Visionary

flaps@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) (05/22/89)

In article <234@zeek.UUCP> larry@zeek.UUCP (Larry Podmolik) writes:
>I need a C function that, given a date, would return what day of the
>week it fell on.

It's in almost all C libraries and it's called localtime().  Depending on which
format your input date is in, you might want to use the new mktime() function.
I've seen PD mktime()s go by.  I can mail you non-PD versions of these
functions for your personal use if you want.

ajr

--
"The winners write the history books."

flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) (05/23/89)

In article <322@xdos.UUCP>,
   doug@xdos.UUCP (Doug Merritt) writes:
>Try this:
>	((year * 1.25) + (day-of-the-year) + constant) modulo 7

Using a strict interpretation of (day-of-the-year), you should use
(year + (year-1)/4) instead of (year * 1.25).

For the Gregorian calendar, try this instead:
	year + (year-1)/4 - (year-1)/100 + (year-1)/400.

Note that not all countries adopted the Gregorian calendar at the
same time.  (Japan was quite late, something like 19th century?)
--
Felix Lee	flee@shire.cs.psu.edu	*!psuvax1!shire!flee

rjd@occrsh.ATT.COM (Randy_Davis) (05/24/89)

In article <234@zeek.UUCP> larry@zeek.UUCP (Larry Podmolik) writes:
|I need a C function that, given a date, would return what day of the
|week it fell on.  Of course, I didn't think to save it at the time.

  Well, this is not C, but it is a cheap and easy shell script that will
do the same, based on the "cal" command.

Randy Davis					UUCP: ...(att!)ocrjd!randy
						      ...(att!)occrsh!rjd
--------------------------cut here--------------------------------------
# How this for simple - "dow", a simple day of week calculator, written 1/11/89
# by Randy Davis.  Error checking and error messages added 3/9/89.

USAGE="Usage: $0 month[1-12] day[1-31] year[00-99] - to calculate the day\nof week for a certain date."

MONTH=$1
DAY=$2
YR=$3

case "$DAY" in
	[1-9]|[12][0-9]|3[01]) ;;
	*) echo $USAGE ; exit ;;
esac
case "$MONTH" in
	[1-9]|1[012]) ;;
	*) echo $USAGE ; exit ;;
esac
case "$YR" in
	[0-9][0-9]) ;;
	*) echo $USAGE ; exit ;;
esac

set `cal $MONTH 19$YR | egrep "^$DAY | $DAY | $DAY$"`

for DOW in Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday
do
  if [ "$1" = "$DAY" ]
  then
    break
  fi
  shift
done

echo $DOW

mark@drd.UUCP (Mark Lawrence) (05/26/89)

flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) wrote:
....
} Note that not all countries adopted the Gregorian calendar at the
} same time.  (Japan was quite late, something like 19th century?)

Just going through receipts for an expense report for a trip last
week and I spot a receipt for a train-trip to Yumoto which took place on
May 15, 1 Heisei.  Last time I was there, everything was dated 63 (or was
it 64?) Showa.

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (05/30/89)

In article <554@drd.UUCP> lawrence@tusun2.knet.utulsa.edu (Mark Lawrence) writes:
>} Note that not all countries adopted the Gregorian calendar at the
>} same time.  (Japan was quite late, something like 19th century?)
>
>Just going through receipts for an expense report for a trip last
>week and I spot a receipt for a train-trip to Yumoto which took place on
>May 15, 1 Heisei.  Last time I was there, everything was dated 63 (or was
>it 64?) Showa.

Two different problems.  Note that it *did* say "May 15".  That's the
Gregorian calendar, specifying number of days in each month and when the
leap-years occur.  The *name* given to each year is a different story.
Most of the Gregorian world uses the standard "AD" numbering, but Japan
numbers from the start of the reign of the current emperor.  Last time
you were there, Hirohito was still alive.  (Yes, he'd been emperor for
over 60 years.)

The mind boggles at how many programs had to be fixed to know about the
new year numbering...
-- 
Van Allen, adj: pertaining to  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
deadly hazards to spaceflight. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

jamesa@arabian.Sun.COM (James D. Allen) (05/30/89)

In article <1989May29.232954.25638@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
> >May 15, 1 Heisei.  Last time I was there, everything was dated 63 (or was
> >it 64?) Showa.
> 
> Most of the Gregorian world uses the standard "AD" numbering, but Japan
> numbers from the start of the reign of the current emperor.  Last time
> you were there, Hirohito was still alive.  (Yes, he'd been emperor for
> over 60 years.)
> 
> The mind boggles at how many programs had to be fixed to know about the
> new year numbering...

Are you sure?  Even the most loyal of Japanese programmers should have
anticipated outliving the aging emperor.  Now a Christian programmer whose
software is ready to switch to the year 1 A.A.  (Anno Antichristi) ... that
would be defensive programming!

> -- 
> Van Allen, adj: pertaining to  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
> deadly hazards to spaceflight. |

James Allen, interj: pertaining to
dreadful hazards of unmoderated newsgroups.

trebor@biar.UUCP (Robert J Woodhead) (05/30/89)

In article <107107@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> jamesa@arabian.Sun.COM (James D. Allen) writes:
>In article <1989May29.232954.25638@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
>> The mind boggles at how many programs had to be fixed to know about the
>> new year numbering...
>
>Are you sure?  Even the most loyal of Japanese programmers should have
>anticipated outliving the aging emperor.

Well, for many computer tasks the Japanese use the gregorian calendar.  When
Hirohito died and the name of the new era (Heisei) was announced, those
machines (most notably, bank machines) all had to have their date routines
updated.  The hooks were already there; in most cases it involved setting
a table entry to indicate that 1989 was year 1 of the new era and another
entry giving the kanji characters for Heisei.

As a matter of note, all of the ticket printing machines in Tokyo subways,
which use the Japanese dating system, changed over flawlessly.

The major expense was reprinting all the government documents, calendars, etc.
This, and not the Recruit scandal, was what really brought down the Takeshita
government.  Seems that they hadn't set aside enough bribe money to pay for
the new calendars, and...

-- 
Robert J Woodhead, Biar Games, Inc.  !uunet!biar!trebor | trebor@biar.UUCP
``The worst thing about being a vampire is that you can't go to matinees
  and save money anymore.''

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (05/30/89)

In article <107107@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> jamesa@arabian.Sun.COM (James D. Allen) writes:
>> The mind boggles at how many programs had to be fixed to know about the
>> new year numbering...
>
>Are you sure?  Even the most loyal of Japanese programmers should have
>anticipated outliving the aging emperor...

Even the stupidest of North American programmers should anticipate that the
first two digits of the year will change not too far in the future... but
in fact often this gets botched.  Forecasting programs are already running
into this:  1975 was a bad year for 25-year forecasts, and 1990 will most
probably be a rough year for 10-year forecasts.  The chaos in 2000 AD will
be something to behold.

What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
2038 does not bear thinking about... :-)
-- 
Van Allen, adj: pertaining to  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
deadly hazards to spaceflight. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

diamond@diamond.csl.sony.junet (Norman Diamond) (05/31/89)

Minor point first (it came first):
In article <554@drd.UUCP> lawrence@tusun2.knet.utulsa.edu (Mark Lawrence) writes:

>>} Note that not all countries adopted the Gregorian calendar at the
>>} same time.  (Japan was quite late, something like 19th century?)
>>
>>Just going through receipts for an expense report for a trip last
>>week and I spot a receipt for a train-trip to Yumoto which took place on
>>May 15, 1 Heisei.  Last time I was there, everything was dated 63 (or was
>>it 64?) Showa.

Last time was Showa 63.  Showa 64 lasted one week, and Heisei 1 is the
rest of this year.  There is no Japanese name for this year as a whole.

Major point second:
In article <1989May29.232954.25638@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:

>The mind boggles at how many programs had to be fixed to know about the
>new year numbering...

Yup.  But my mind boggles at how many programs will have to be fixed to
know that 2000 is a leap year ... and then all the programs that will
have to be fixed to know that 2000 is not 1900 and 2001 is not 1901,
and then that 1999 is not 2099, etc.  Of course these programs are
already broken because these facts are already known, and my mind
boggles at how many programmers and managers refuse to permit correct
programs to be written instead ... but just wait 'til they need fixing.

--
Norman Diamond, Sony Computer Science Lab (diamond%csl.sony.co.jp@relay.cs.net)
  The above opinions are my own.   |  Why are programmers criticized for
  If they're also your opinions,   |  re-implementing the wheel, when car
  you're infringing my copyright.  |  manufacturers are praised for it?

dgibbs@bnr-fos.UUCP (David Gibbs) (05/31/89)

In article <1989May30.155016.11099@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
>
>What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
>2038 does not bear thinking about... :-)
>-- 
  Nothing of course, because nobody (but nobody) will be using piddly little
32-bit machines in 2038.

-David Gibbs
 dgibbs@bnr-fos.UUCP 
 ...!{utzoo | utgpu}!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!dgibbs

richard@pantor.UUCP (Richard Sargent) (05/31/89)

> From: henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer)
> Message-ID: <1989May30.155016.11099@utzoo.uucp>
> 
> [...]
> 
> What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
> 2038 does not bear thinking about... :-)
> -- 
> Van Allen, adj: pertaining to  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
> deadly hazards to spaceflight. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

I've pretty well decided to be several hundred miles away from anything that
relies on computers, starting about Summer'99 ... :-).

I *hate* to even think about the chaos which will result with the turn of
the 'millenium' :-(   Maybe the doomsayers had something after all ...


Richard Sargent                   Internet: richard@pantor.UUCP
Systems Analyst                   UUCP:     uunet!pantor!richard

cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan) (06/01/89)

In article <1989May29.232954.25638@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
>Most of the Gregorian world uses the standard "AD" numbering

However, much of the world >calls< that numbering "C.E.", for Common Era.
(Used to be "Christian Era".)  "In the year of our Lord" is a bit too
Christian for lots of nations.
-- 
John Cowan <cowan@marob.masa.com> or <cowan@magpie.masa.com>
UUCP mailers:  ...!uunet!hombre!{marob,magpie}!cowan
Fidonet (last resort): 1:107/711
Aiya elenion ancalima!

emuleomo@yes.rutgers.edu (Emuleomo) (06/01/89)

> What will happen in 2038 when UNIX 32-bit dates will become negative...
>
Dont worry about it.  The world will end in 2025 at 2:02 pm, Jan 2nd.

-- Emuleomo O.O.

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (06/01/89)

In article <534@bnr-fos.UUCP> dgibbs@bcars115.UUCP (David Gibbs) writes:
>>What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
>>2038 does not bear thinking about... :-)
>  Nothing of course, because nobody (but nobody) will be using piddly little
>32-bit machines in 2038.

Dream on... :-)  Have you looked at how many PDP-8s are still in service?
I won't even mention the staggering production runs of PDP-11s, which are
still in production in fact.  (I *think* the 8 is finally out of production,
but I could well be wrong.)  Nobody uses them in leading-edge applications
any more, but there are still lots of them around.  The transition from 32
to 64 is going to be long and painful; I predict that there will still be
plenty of 32-bit machines serving in secondary roles in 2038.
-- 
You *can* understand sendmail, |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
but it's not worth it. -Collyer| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

charlie@mica.stat.washington.edu (Charlie Geyer) (06/02/89)

In response to Henry Spencer's question

> What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
> 2038 does not bear thinking about ... :-)

David Gibbs in article <534@bnr-fos.UUCP> dgibbs@bcars115.UUCP replies

> Nothing of course, because nobody (but nobody) will be using piddly little
> 32-bit machines in 2038.

To which Henry replies
 
> Dream on ... :-)  The transition from 32 to 64 is going to be long
> and painful; I predict that there will still be plenty of 32-bit
> machines serving in secondary roles in 2038.

What's more, the 64 bit hardware will all be running 32 bit software.
Count on it.

diamond@diamond.csl.sony.junet (Norman Diamond) (06/02/89)

In article <1989May30.155016.11099@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:

>>What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
>>2038 does not bear thinking about... :-)

In article <534@bnr-fos.UUCP> dgibbs@bcars115.UUCP (David Gibbs) writes:

>  Nothing of course, because nobody (but nobody) will be using piddly little
>32-bit machines in 2038.

When I was introduced to a 5-year-old mainframe in 1970, I thought
"32 bits isn't enough.  Why is this thing less powerful than that slow
old little machine that uses BCD, Can't Add and Doesn't Even Try?"
Surely no one would have predicted that piddly little 32-bit machines
and piddlier littler 16-bit machines would still be used 19 years later.
Well, in those 19 years, I adapted not only to 32-bit limitations but
also to 16-bit limitations.  (Somehow the 8-bit machines had 16-bit
library routines supplied by their vendors.  Never saw the famous 4-bit
machines, except maybe the one that Couldn't Add and Didn't Even Try.)
Why can't all these eunuchs do it....

--
Norman Diamond, Sony Computer Science Lab (diamond%csl.sony.co.jp@relay.cs.net)
  The above opinions are my own.   |  Why are programmers criticized for
  If they're also your opinions,   |  re-implementing the wheel, when car
  you're infringing my copyright.  |  manufacturers are praised for it?

badri@valhalla.ee.rochester.edu (Badri Lokanathan) (06/02/89)

Henry Spencer:
>> What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
>> 2038 does not bear thinking about ... :-)

>David Gibbs in article <534@bnr-fos.UUCP>:
>> Nothing of course, because nobody (but nobody) will be using piddly little
>> 32-bit machines in 2038.

Henry Spencer:
>> Dream on ... :-)  The transition from 32 to 64 is going to be long
>> and painful; I predict that there will still be plenty of 32-bit
>> machines serving in secondary roles in 2038.

Charlie Geyer in article <1474@uw-entropy.ms.washington.edu>:
>What's more, the 64 bit hardware will all be running 32 bit software.
>Count on it.

Are you guys serious? Do you actually think that 50 years from now
people will be doing their computing on 32/64/128/256 bit machines?
Or even Von-Neumann machines? With Unix as the operating system?

Just think: 50 years ago they were still sending messages through
naked runners (no - not quite, but almost that primitive!)

PS. There is a rumor that PDP-11's have been microcoded to self
destruct one minute before the year 2000. I also hope that I am alive
50 years from today to witness the computing of that time!
-- 
"I care about my fellow man              {) badri@ee.rochester.edu
 Being taken for a ride,                //\\ {ames,cmcl2,columbia,cornell,
 I care that things start changing     ///\\\ garp,harvard,ll-xn,rutgers}!
 But there's no one on my side."-UB40   _||_   rochester!ur-valhalla!badri

cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (06/02/89)

In article <534@bnr-fos.UUCP>, dgibbs@bnr-fos.UUCP (David Gibbs) writes:
> In article <1989May30.155016.11099@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
> >
> >What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
> >2038 does not bear thinking about... :-)
> >-- 
>   Nothing of course, because nobody (but nobody) will be using piddly little
> 32-bit machines in 2038.
> 
> -David Gibbs

Nonsense.  All 32-bit machines will be used in the Third World by
then.  As a consequence, all those dates going negative will cause
the collapse of their economies.  Once again, the racist, sexist,
ageist, imperialist conspiracy will crush the suffering oppressed
countries of the Third World.

:-):-)


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {pyramid,pixar,tekbspa}!optilink!cramer
"He chose...poorly." -- Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer?  You must be kidding!  No company would hold opinions like mine!

cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (06/02/89)

In article <1989May30.155016.11099@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
> In article <107107@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> jamesa@arabian.Sun.COM (James D. Allen) writes:
# ## The mind boggles at how many programs had to be fixed to know about the
# ## new year numbering...
# #
# #Are you sure?  Even the most loyal of Japanese programmers should have
# #anticipated outliving the aging emperor...
# 
# Even the stupidest of North American programmers should anticipate that the
# first two digits of the year will change not too far in the future... but
# in fact often this gets botched.  Forecasting programs are already running
# into this:  1975 was a bad year for 25-year forecasts, and 1990 will most
# probably be a rough year for 10-year forecasts.  The chaos in 2000 AD will
# be something to behold.
# 
# What will happen when the 32-bit Unix date goes negative in mid-January
# 2038 does not bear thinking about... :-)
# -- 
# Van Allen, adj: pertaining to  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology

Even the stupidest should -- but when I raised this issue in a meeting
a couple of years ago, people laughed!  They thought I was making a
joke!  Especially since our equipment will have a very, very long
lifetime, this is an important issue.  After the Wall Street Journal
carried an article about "Doomsday" and its effect on data processing,
people started to take the subject seriously.

I sure hope that I have retired from computers before 2000 -- all
hell is going to break loose, if people aren't already planning to
bring on battalions of maintenance programmers to go looking for
year dependencies -- especially those sticky situations where someone
sorts by 2-digit year, and uses all the available characters in a
filename with the year included.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {pyramid,pixar,tekbspa}!optilink!cramer
"He chose...poorly." -- Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer?  You must be kidding!  No company would hold opinions like mine!

peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (06/02/89)

Charlie Geyer <charlie@mica.stat.washington.edu> in <1474@uw-entropy.ms.washington.edu>:
> David Gibbs in article <534@bnr-fos.UUCP> dgibbs@bcars115.UUCP:
> > nobody (but nobody) will be using piddly little 32-bit machines in 2038.

> To which Henry replies
[ pdp-8s still in use ]
> > Dream on ... :-)  The transition from 32 to 64 is going to be long
> > and painful; I predict that there will still be plenty of 32-bit
> > machines serving in secondary roles in 2038.

> What's more, the 64 bit hardware will all be running 32 bit software.
> Count on it.

2038 is nearly 50 years away. PDP-8s were a going concern 20 years ago
and still any remaining ones are hanging on by the ragged edge. Sure, you'll
still see a fair number of 32-bit machines 20 years from now, but 64-bit
machines with 64-bit software will be on the rise. In 50 years... who knows.
I really doubt if there will be *plenty* of 32-bit machines... maybe as
embedded controllers along with 8- and 16- bit micros (see, for example,
_Across Realtime_ by Vernor Vinge), but I suspect that 64-bit machines will
be on the way out.

Of course, there's always the possibility that in 50 years computing will be
done by teams of scribes. "Nuclear war can ruin your whole compile" -- Karl
Lehenbauer.
-- 
Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.

Business: uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter, peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180.
Personal: ...!texbell!sugar!peter, peter@sugar.hackercorp.com.

desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) (06/03/89)

In article <4384@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes:
> [32 bits will be around in 50 years. No it won't. Yes it will ...]
>
>2038 is nearly 50 years away. PDP-8s were a going concern 20 years ago
>and still any remaining ones are hanging on by the ragged edge.

I have heard that a lot of bank ATMs are controlled by PDP-8s. Can
anyone with better knowledge than be confirm/deny this rumor? (Or are
they all on IBM mainframes connected to private SNA networks? :-)

				Peter Desnoyers

d88-jwa@nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) (06/03/89)

In article <4384@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes:

>still see a fair number of 32-bit machines 20 years from now, but 64-bit
>machines with 64-bit software will be on the rise. In 50 years... who knows.

>_Across Realtime_ by Vernor Vinge), but I suspect that 64-bit machines will
>be on the way out.

So, if computers have stuck with 32 bits for n years, are there not
chances that computers will do so for another n years ? And the dawn of
parallell cube machines suggest that computing power is increased through
new architectures, not through more bits in the registers.

Of course, IF Unix (TM of AT&T, isn't it ?) is still around at 2038,
I think THAT implementation will take care of the 32-bit problem...
Especially since this meeting ALREADY is suggesting something is done
about this problem.

>Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.

-- 
 __       Jon W{tte (The dread Smiley Shark) email:h+@nada.kth.se
/  \      (+46 (0) 8 258 268)
   /---   (c) 1989 Yessbox Allright Professional Products Inc. - Y.A.P.P.I.
  /       -- No More --

erict@flatline.UUCP (J. Eric Townsend) (06/04/89)

In article <32220@apple.Apple.COM> desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) writes:
>I have heard that a lot of bank ATMs are controlled by PDP-8s. Can
>anyone with better knowledge than be confirm/deny this rumor? (Or are
>they all on IBM mainframes connected to private SNA networks? :-)


I used to work for Integrated BancSystems, a company that produced
banking software.  We played around with Diebold equipment that
was used as ATM servers (we were thinking about expanding).

The Diebold box we got the most use of was a 8-something-86 box
running iRMX (or something like that).  Basically, it was a very
small, very underpowered multi-tasking system that could do nothing
but drive ATMs.  Also, most Circle-K's have Diebold-brand ATMs these
days, so I'd guess that a large chunk of the ATM servers are Diebold
boxes with Intel chips.  Might as well be PDP-8s... :-)



-- 
"I'm chronically unable to enjoy most formula fiction, be it by Larry
Niven, Norman Mailer or Margaret Drabble." -- Michael Moorcock.
J. Eric Townsend
Inet: <temporarily disabled>   511 Parker #2 Houston,Tx,77007
EastEnders Mailing List: eastender@flatline.UUCP

peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (06/05/89)

In article <1158@draken.nada.kth.se>, d88-jwa@nada.kth.se (Jon We"tte) writes:
> In article <4384@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes:
> >still see a fair number of 32-bit machines 20 years from now, but 64-bit
> >machines with 64-bit software will be on the rise. In 50 years... I
> >suspect that 64-bit machines will be on the way out.

> So, if computers have stuck with 32 bits for n years, are there not
> chances that computers will do so for another n years ?

Sure, but we're talking about 2.5 * n years here.
-- 
Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.

Business: uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter, peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180.
Personal: ...!texbell!sugar!peter, peter@sugar.hackercorp.com.

diamond@csl.sony.co.jp (Norman Diamond) (06/05/89)

Does anyone else get "interp buffer overflow" trying to follow-up to
a message like this:
  References: <234@zeek.UUCP> <322@xdos.UUCP> <FLEE.89May22191959@shire.cs.psu.edu> <1989May29.232954.25638@utzoo.uucp> <107107@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> <1989May30.155016.11099@utzoo.uucp> <534@bnr-fos.UUCP> <1989Jun1.160913.8849@utzoo.uucp> <1474@uw-entropy.ms.was
Does anyone else get ".newsrc restored" and find that their .newsrc is
not restored?  Well, it's slightly better than having to skip past the
30 preceding comp.lang.c articles again.

Anyway...

Henry Spencer:
>> Dream on ... :-)  The transition from 32 to 64 is going to be long
>> and painful; I predict that there will still be plenty of 32-bit
>> machines serving in secondary roles in 2038.

Charlie Geyer in article <1474@uw-entropy.ms.washington.edu>:
>What's more, the 64 bit hardware will all be running 32 bit software.
>Count on it.

Badri Lokanathan:
>Are you guys serious? Do you actually think that 50 years from now
>people will be doing their computing on 32/64/128/256 bit machines?
>Or even Von-Neumann machines? With Unix as the operating system?

Are you serious, Mr. Lokanathan?  Did anyone believe that a mainframe
operating system would still be in use 25 years later?  And if that's
not enough, consider this:

No one, but no one, wants to be seen using a 10-year-old piece of
hardware.  Sure, they'll use them in secondary roles, but no one wants
to be seen using them.

But a 20-year-old operating system is another story.  Everyone wants
to run a 20-year-old operating system with their 3-year-old workstation,
bitmapped screen, network, and megabytes of RAM.  No one wants to use
an operating system newer than that, even though a few of the newer ones
are better.  This kind of attitude isn't going to change in the next
50 years either.

Oh there are exceptions of course, for instance I prefer a certain
10-year-old operating system and a certain 5-year-old one, and would
be interested in watching a few others that are now under development.
But such preferences are risky to careers, and should be kept quiet.

--
Norman Diamond, Sony Computer Science Lab (diamond%csl.sony.co.jp@relay.cs.net)
  The above opinions are my own.   |  Why are programmers criticized for
  If they're also your opinions,   |  re-implementing the wheel, when car
  you're infringing my copyright.  |  manufacturers are praised for it?

mcdonald@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (06/06/89)

>I have heard that a lot of bank ATMs are controlled by PDP-8s. Can
>anyone with better knowledge than be confirm/deny this rumor? (Or are
>they all on IBM mainframes connected to private SNA networks? :-)

I have no knowledge, but one comforting thought: a lot of PDP-8
software used triple precision (36bits)! I know mine did.

And, since the biggest number added at one time was 4096, the
DMA hardware and a few gates took care of all the overflow automatically!


Doug McDonald

bradb@ai.toronto.edu (Brad Brown) (06/09/89)

In article <32220@apple.Apple.COM> desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) writes:
>
>I have heard that a lot of bank ATMs are controlled by PDP-8s. Can
>anyone with better knowledge than be confirm/deny this rumor? (Or are
>they all on IBM mainframes connected to private SNA networks? :-)

I'm told by someone who works for CIBC (Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce)
that at least most of the ATMs currently being shipped by IBM are controlled
by what is essentially an AT -- that is, it's an AT motherboard and it
uses IBM format 1.2MB floppy disks, at least for IPL.

BTW, the new IBM 4800 series POS (Point of Sale) terminals are controlled
by AT motherboards or a close derivative, too.

					(-:  Brad Brown  :-)
					bradb@ai.utoronto.ca