ryan@sjuphil.uucp (P. Ryan) (10/03/89)
I have been offered a freelance programming job for a month or so
and I need some information. I have a bachelor's in computer science,
two summers' worth or "real world" programming experience and I am
working on my master's in CS. The project involves programming in
C on a PC.
1) What kind of salary should I expect? I have heard estimates between
$15-$20/hr to $50/hr. For that matter, what kind of salary structure
is 'standard'? Hourly, daily, weekly, bulk rate, etc?
2) What kind of things should I be sure to have in a contract? What
is reasonable/unreasonable to expect from me and what is reasonable/
unreasonable to expect from my employer? I have been told not to
promise anything more than a "best effort". Can anyone expand
upon that premise?
Thanks,
Pat
patrick ryan "geez. i guess
ryan@sjuphil.sju.edu we'll need
[princeton|burdvax|bpa!drexel]!sjuphil!ryan more fbi guys."
--
patrick ryan "geez. i guess
ryan@sjuphil.sju.edu we'll need
[princeton|burdvax|bpa!drexel]!sjuphil!ryan more fbi guys."mccaugh@s.cs.uiuc.edu (10/04/89)
First - as to salary - for a BS in CS, the lower range you mentioned ($15 to $20 per hr, if that) seems more realistic. Secondly - and more important for your own protection - is to ensure that you get ACCURATE specifications for a job PRIOR to programming, and I mean: IN WRITING. In my own experience and most of my colleagues, that has proved to be the main problem in getting tasks done to everyone's satisfaction. Scott McCaughrin (mccaugh@s.cs.uiuc.edu)
condict@cs.vu.nl (Michael Condict) (10/05/89)
In article <207600048@s.cs.uiuc.edu> mccaugh@s.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > > First - as to salary - for a BS in CS, the lower range you mentioned ($15 to > $20 per hr, if that) seems more realistic. > Secondly - and more important for your own protection - is to ensure that > you get ACCURATE specifications for a job PRIOR to programming, and I mean: > IN WRITING. In my own experience and most of my colleagues, that has proved > to be the main problem in getting tasks done to everyone's satisfaction. > > > Scott McCaughrin > (mccaugh@s.cs.uiuc.edu) I don't know where you've worked as an independent, but in the metropolitan New York City area, someone with a B.S. in C.S. would get between $30 and $35 dollars/hour under the typical assumptions that: (1) No consulting company is in the middle between programmer and client, nor is the programmer an employee of the client ("freelance" implies this, of course). (2) The client provides office and computer facilities to the programmer. (3) The programmer has at least a couple years experience. (4) The work is full time for at least 6 months (smaller contracts tend to be for higher hourly rates). (5) The client is not a University, which pay notoriously low wages. When I was a graduate student 8 years ago at Cornell, I was paid $20/hour to do some programming for the University, which certainly indicates that the $15 to $20 / hour figure is low. Since then I've had several independent contracts and contracts with consulting companies, and I can assure you that $15 to $20 / hour is low even if you sign on as the employee of a consulting company (assuming no benefits). Moreover, my experience has only been with the C.S. research and development industry. Independent consultants working in the financial industry can expect to make up to twice as much for doing similar types of programming, based on the long-established principle that the closer you get to the money, the more of it you get paid. Michael Condict condict@cs.vu.nl Vrije Univerity Amsterdam
sabbagh@acf5.NYU.EDU (sabbagh) (10/05/89)
In article <207600048@s.cs.uiuc.edu> mccaugh@s.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > > Secondly - and more important for your own protection - is to ensure that > you get ACCURATE specifications for a job PRIOR to programming, and I mean: > IN WRITING. In my own experience and most of my colleagues, that has proved > to be the main problem in getting tasks done to everyone's satisfaction. Better still: WORK WITH THE CONTRACTOR to generate written specifications. This will increase your value to the contractor and make you more desirable, since most consultants are good at programming and lousy at systems analysis. The best way to learn systems analysis is by experience. Yourdon's books on the subject give a good introduction, but his "structured" analysis pays for itself only in large organizations. Draw some DFDs, build a data dictionary but don't take the whole structured analysis thing too seriously unless you are looking at a project involving 1+ man-years (person-years?). From my experience, systems analysis and design are at least as fun as actual programming and make the code-writing part easier. With the more rigorous development cycle I am suggesting, you don't really add to the number of design decisions to be made, you just make them in a different order. That's what top-down design is all about. Hadil G. Sabbagh E-mail: sabbagh@csd27.nyu.edu Voice: (212) 998-3285 Snail: Courant Institute of Math. Sci. 251 Mercer St. New York,NY 10012 186,282 miles per second -- it's not just a good idea, it's the law!
fredb@llama.rtech.UUCP (Fred Buechler) (10/10/89)
In article <872@acf5.NYU.EDU> sabbagh@acf5.UUCP () writes: [Stuff Deleted] > >Better still: WORK WITH THE CONTRACTOR to generate written specifications. >This will increase your value to the contractor and make you more desirable, >since most consultants are good at programming and lousy at systems analysis. > [More Stuff Deleted] >The best way to learn systems analysis is by experience. Yourdon's books >on the subject give a good introduction, but his "structured" analysis [STill More Stuff Deleted] What makes you think that most consultants have not got the experience and knowledge to do good systems analysis? REAL consulatants, not some kid just out of college or a summer hire (these people are really just contract coders), are at times retained ONLY for the systems analysis and design phase of a project. Then the less experienced in-house programmers do all the coding. Fred Buechler (A consulatant with 15 years experience in DP and consulting for 7 of 'em!)
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (10/12/89)
fredb@llama.UUCP (Fred Buechler) writes: >What makes you think that most consultants have not got the experience and >knowledge to do good systems analysis? The results ... -- richard -- * A CITIZEN: "Who might you be ? Samson ? --" * * CYRANO: "Precisely. Would you kindly lend me your jawbone ?" * * from _Cyrano de Bergerac_, by Edmond Rostand * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers *
fredb@llama.rtech.UUCP (Fred Buechler) (10/12/89)
In article <2144@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: >fredb@llama.UUCP (Fred Buechler) writes: > >>What makes you think that most consultants have not got the experience and >>knowledge to do good systems analysis? > >The results ... > >-- richard > And after reading your discussion of a C compiler arbitrarily creating a fixed length buffer for a dimensionless array, I can only imagine the kind of results that you produce ... Fred.
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (10/14/89)
fredb@llama.UUCP (Fred Buechler) writes: >And after reading your discussion of a C compiler arbitrarily creating a fixed >length buffer for a dimensionless array, I can only imagine the kind of results >that you produce ... Hmm. Is that so. I don't recall offering any advice to anyone about how to create a fixed-length buffer for a dimensionless array. I _have_ posted on how to find ASCII strings using MSC 4.0, perhaps you've confused me with another ? Imagine away. I'm not a consultant or a contractor at this point in time, and even if I was I wouldn't be so foolish as to deny that the title has nothing to do with the competence of the individual, it does. I'd also suggest that titles tends to make contractors' self-perception a little shaky, as when they begin to see themselves as consultants, they get the mistaken idea that they have risen above errors. I'm certainly interested in becoming a contractor or consultant, but more for reasons of financial security and self-management than for reasons of ego. This is not the case with many of the consultants I've met. Very simply ... professionalism != consultancy. They are two entirely different critters. Followups to alt.flame ... >Fred. -- richard -- * A CITIZEN: "Who might you be ? Samson ? --" * * CYRANO: "Precisely. Would you kindly lend me your jawbone ?" * * from _Cyrano de Bergerac_, by Edmond Rostand * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers *