eric@ux.acss.umn.edu (Eric D. Hendrickson) (12/27/89)
Is the ANSI C Standard (complete) available for anoymous ftp? Yours, --Eric -- /---------"Oh carrots are divine, you get a dozen for dime, its maaaagic."--- |Eric (the "Mentat-Philosopher") Hendrickson University of Minnesota |1 Lind Hall; 207 Church Street S.E., Internet: eric@ux.acss.umn.edu |Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA 612/625-0801 The game is afoot!
xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account) (12/31/89)
In article <994@ux.acss.umn.edu> eric@ux.acss.umn.edu (Eric D. Hendrickson) writes: >Is the ANSI C Standard (complete) available for anoymous ftp? > > Yours, > --Eric >-- >/---------"Oh carrots are divine, you get a dozen for dime, its maaaagic."--- >|Eric (the "Mentat-Philosopher") Hendrickson University of Minnesota >|1 Lind Hall; 207 Church Street S.E., Internet: eric@ux.acss.umn.edu >|Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA 612/625-0801 The game is afoot! Almost certainly not "legally", since ANSI (CBEMA?) policy forbids telecom distribution of even _draft_ standards documents to non-standards committee members. ANSI derives a _very_ large income from selling highly overpriced nearly illegible paper copies of ephemeral documents. I've beaten my head against this one repeatedly, and it has prevented (impoverished) me from submitting comments on FORTRAN 8X, CGM, and PHIGS standards, among others where I could have provided expert advice to a less rapacious organization. Individual committee members _hate_ this [and one even photocopied and sent to me the FORTRAN 8X dpANS (a bit late for me to use, but the thought was sure nice, Presley!)], because they know that knowledge is not restricted to those with corporate financial support, but the ANSI rules leave them pretty helpless. Again, my opinion, not the account furnishers'. xanthian@well.sf.ca.us Kent, the (bionic) man from xanth, now available as a build-a-xanthian kit at better toy stores near you. Warning - some parts are fragile. /^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ < Your artwork converted to a METAFONT symbol program for TeX and LaTeX use! > < Send a salad plate sized blowup, a SASE, and a cover letter to me at TCC, > < P.O. Box 390755, Mountain View, CA 94039-0755 for a no risk, fixed price > < quote. Company logos a specialty. (Hey, it's a living, however modest.) > \vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv/
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (12/31/89)
In article <994@ux.acss.umn.edu> eric@ux.acss.umn.edu (Eric D. Hendrickson) writes: >Is the ANSI C Standard (complete) available for anoymous ftp? (Whatever happened to our frequently-asked-questions list effort?) No. It is not available in machine-readable form at all. This is partly because sale of printed copies is a major source of funding for standards work, and partly because there is real concern about mutated copies being distributed as authentic. (Opinions vary on the relative significance of these two issues, but both are real reasons.) -- 1972: Saturn V #15 flight-ready| Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology 1989: birds nesting in engines | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (12/31/89)
In article <10241@zodiac.ADS.COM> xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account) writes: >Almost certainly not "legally", since ANSI (CBEMA?) policy forbids >telecom distribution of even _draft_ standards documents to >non-standards committee members... It is worth noting that (a) becoming a committee member costs on the order of $100 a year, an amount well within the reach of most concerned individuals, and (b) most committee members don't get the machine-readable form either. (Yes, there are people sufficiently impoverished that they absolutely cannot afford an extra $100. Such people presumably cannot afford to drive a car, drink beer, or wear brand-name bluejeans either. If they can afford one or more of those things, clearly they're willing to spend that sort of money on luxuries, and one must conclude that they give participation in any one particular standards effort a rather low priority.) (For the record, since accusations of complacency tend to fly when something like this is posted, my own limited participation in the ANSI C effort was financed entirely out of my own pocket. And no, I am not a rich professor. I wasn't an X3J11 member, but that was a question of lack of time rather than money. The fees are not exorbitant for the amount of paper you get.) -- 1972: Saturn V #15 flight-ready| Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology 1989: birds nesting in engines | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
tanner@ki4pv.UUCP (Dr. T. Andrews) (12/31/89)
) It is worth noting that (a) becoming a committee member costs on the
) order of $100 a year ... The fees are not exorbitant for the amount
) of paper you get.
This is true, but misses the point. The point is that ANSI is not
so much providing a standards service as a purveyor of huge masses of
expensive and often poorly-printed paper.
This hardly seems to me to be the way to have their standard propagated.
...!{bikini.cis.ufl.edu allegra attctc bpa uunet!cdin-1}!ki4pv!tannerhenry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (01/03/90)
In article <0000007@ki4pv.UUCP> tanner@cdis-1.UUCP (Dr. T. Andrews) writes: >) It is worth noting that (a) becoming a committee member costs on the >) order of $100 a year ... The fees are not exorbitant for the amount >) of paper you get. >This is true, but misses the point. The point is that ANSI is not >so much providing a standards service as a purveyor of huge masses of >expensive and often poorly-printed paper. One has to distinguish between two different activities: standards development, and standards publication. Published standards from ANSI are generally printed very well, although they are admittedly a bit pricey. There is no published C standard (or Fortran 8X standard, etc.) yet. Standards development involves shipping really *huge* masses of paper -- the actual draft standards are only a very small part of it -- and speed and economy are generally given priority over print quality. This seems a reasonable tradeoff to me. Please don't confuse drafts with standards. ANSI's primary function is to get good standards developed. Publication of the results is a side issue, albeit an important one, and prices are high because somebody has to pay for the development overhead. -- 1972: Saturn V #15 flight-ready| Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology 1990: birds nesting in engines | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
mike@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU (Mike Haertel) (01/03/90)
In article <1990Jan2.163217.24888@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >ANSI's primary function is to get good standards developed. Publication >of the results is a side issue, albeit an important one, and prices are >high because somebody has to pay for the development overhead. Probably another reason prices are high is that all too few people actually obtain copies of the standards. So newsgroups like this are inundated with questions like "What does the standard say about X?" and lies like "The standard says Y" from people who have never even seen the standard. The former is perhaps more forgivable, but . . . *hint* *hint* A friend of mine is employed by a company (that will remain nameless) to implement various network protocols (in C) for PCs. When he told his some of his coworkers (also C programmers) that he was ordering a copy of the proposed ANSI standard, they said, "The what?" Sad . . . -- Mike Haertel <mike@ai.mit.edu> "Of course, we have to keep in mind that this year's Killer Micro is next year's Lawn Sprinkler Controller . . ." -- Eugene Brooks