brnstnd@stealth.acf.nyu.edu (04/09/90)
In article <W+Q2+T1xds13@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: > In my arrogant opinion... > this discussion no longer has any bearing on comp.lang.c. IMNSFHO the DOS-specific questions should be separated out in the first place, perhaps into comp.lang.c.dos. Anyone like this enough to start a call for discussion in news.groups? ---Dan
tneff@bfmny0.UU.NET (Tom Neff) (04/09/90)
In article <456@wattres.UUCP> steve@wattres.UUCP (Steve Watt) writes: >There already is such a beast! > >It is called COMP.SYS.IBM.PC.PROGRAMMER!!!!!! Because the people smart enough to pick *just* the right group for their Turbo C questions, are too smart to ask much. :-) It's the squeaky wheel you hear, by definition. The ability to recognize a distinction between "how do structures work" and "how do I change Cuisinart blades using Turbo C" appears to be cultural rather than inbuilt. I'm afraid this is a losing battle. -- "Take off your engineering hat = "The filter has | Tom Neff and put on your management hat." = discreting sources." | tneff@bfmny0.UU.NET
steve@wattres.UUCP (Steve Watt) (04/09/90)
In article <403:Apr901:26:4290@stealth.acf.nyu.edu> brnstnd@stealth.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) writes: >X-Original-Subject: Re: TC "system" and "setcolor" questions answered >In article <W+Q2+T1xds13@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >> this discussion no longer has any bearing on comp.lang.c. >IMNSFHO the DOS-specific questions should be separated out in the first >place, perhaps into comp.lang.c.dos. Anyone like this enough to start a There already is such a beast! It is called COMP.SYS.IBM.PC.PROGRAMMER!!!!!! But *why* can't we get people to use it???? Sorry about the flame, but I've gotten sick of mailing semi-rude things to these people... -- Steve Watt ...!claris!wattres!steve wattres!steve@claris.com also works If you torture your data long enough, it'll eventually confess.
flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) (04/09/90)
Steve Watt <steve@wattres.UUCP> asks: >It is called COMP.SYS.IBM.PC.PROGRAMMER!!!!!! >But *why* can't we get people to use it???? ``I'm having a problem with malloc() in Utah.'' The problem has nothing to do with Utah (I hope), but where is the defect? Is it my understanding of malloc, my understanding of C, my Zortech C compiler, my copy of GNU malloc, my Amiga computer, my homebrew operating system, my extended memory board, or my neighbor's cat? -- Felix Lee flee@shire.cs.psu.edu *!psuvax1!flee
chris@mimsy.umd.edu (Chris Torek) (04/10/90)
>Steve Watt <steve@wattres.UUCP> asks: >>It is called COMP.SYS.IBM.PC.PROGRAMMER!!!!!! >>But *why* can't we get people to use it???? In article <E0.dz85@cs.psu.edu> flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes: >``I'm having a problem with malloc() in Utah.'' The problem has >nothing to do with Utah (I hope), but where is the defect? Is it my >understanding of malloc, my understanding of C, my Zortech C compiler, >my copy of GNU malloc, my Amiga computer, my homebrew operating >system, my extended memory board, or my neighbor's cat? This is a good point. There is, however, a `rule of thumb' that applies in cases like this: start with the smallest newsgroup that might apply. In this case, it would probably be an Amiga-specific group. (Incidentally, I thought the neighbors had a dog, not a cat. :-) ) -- In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 7163) Domain: chris@cs.umd.edu Path: uunet!mimsy!chris
dave@cs.arizona.edu (David P. Schaumann) (04/10/90)
In article <403:Apr901:26:4290@stealth.acf.nyu.edu>, brnstnd@stealth.acf.nyu.edu writes: > In article <W+Q2+T1xds13@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: > > In my arrogant opinion... > > this discussion no longer has any bearing on comp.lang.c. > > IMNSFHO the DOS-specific questions should be separated out in the first > place, perhaps into comp.lang.c.dos. Anyone like this enough to start a > call for discussion in news.groups? > > ---Dan Perhaps you have noticed many already do put some flags in the subject line like "TC bug" or "farmalloc". Once you learn to recognize all the magic words that mean Three Initial Corperation, all you need to do is exercise your 'n' key. Dave Schaumann dave@cs.arizona.edu
bph@buengc.BU.EDU (Blair P. Houghton) (04/11/90)
In article <217@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (David P. Schaumann) writes: >> In article <W+Q2+T1xds13@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >>>In my arrogant opinion... >>>this discussion no longer has any bearing on comp.lang.c. > >Perhaps you have noticed many already do put some flags in the subject line >like "TC bug" or "farmalloc". Once you learn to recognize all the magic >words that mean Three Initial Corperation, all you need to do is exercise >your 'n' key. Or do this in your kill-file (or whatever your news-reading software allows): /zortech/j /ibm/j /turbo/j /microsoft/j /ms-dos/j I'm sure there are others you can think of... --Blair "Now let's not get personal..."
flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) (04/11/90)
Chris Torek <chris@cs.umd.edu> wrote: > There is, however, a `rule of thumb' that applies in cases like > this: start with the smallest newsgroup that might apply. In this > case, it would probably be an Amiga-specific group. Well, for the example I gave, the smallest applicable newsgroup by volume is probably gnu.gcc. comp.sys.amiga.tech is only marginally smaller than comp.lang.c, and comp.sys.amiga is a couple times larger. If you mean smallest category, then gnu.gcc still wins. `Amiga' is no smaller than `C', but `GNU cc' is a relatively tiny category. If you mean smallest distribution, then something like utah.test, if there exists such a beast. If you mean smallest chance of a good answer, then how about rec.pets? (The neighbors have both a cat and a dog.) And if the problem really is a defect in my understanding of malloc(), then comp.lang.c is the best newsgroup to ask. -- Felix Lee flee@shire.cs.psu.edu *!psuvax1!flee
pnl@hpfinote.HP.COM (Peter Lim) (04/11/90)
> Steve Watt <steve@wattres.UUCP> asks: > >It is called COMP.SYS.IBM.PC.PROGRAMMER!!!!!! > >But *why* can't we get people to use it???? > > ``I'm having a problem with malloc() in Utah.'' The problem has > nothing to do with Utah (I hope), but where is the defect? Is it my > understanding of malloc, my understanding of C, my Zortech C compiler, > my copy of GNU malloc, my Amiga computer, my homebrew operating > system, my extended memory board, or my neighbor's cat? > -- > Felix Lee flee@shire.cs.psu.edu *!psuvax1!flee > ---------- Felix, the answer is: "Your neighbor's cat !". :-). Why don't we create another note group "comp.lang.c.guru" for those who are much better than the rest ? But whichever way you turn, I think there will always be people asking silly questions. Hey ! Every day, there will be new people getting into C programming and I don't think they should be shot for asking silly question. After all, it should be "Computer/Programming for the people", right ? Regards, ## Life is fast enough as it is ........ Peter Lim. ## .... DON'T PUSH IT !! >>>-------, ########################################### : E-mail: plim@hpsgwg.HP.COM Snail-mail: Hewlett Packard Singapore, : Tel: (065)-279-2289 (ICDS, ICS) | Telnet: 520-2289 1150 Depot Road, __\@/__ ... also at: pnl@hpfipnl.HP.COM Singapore 0410. SPLAT !
chris@mimsy.umd.edu (Chris Torek) (04/11/90)
I wrote: >>There is, however, a `rule of thumb' that applies in cases like >>this: start with the smallest newsgroup that might apply. ... In article <Ejvo5e5@cs.psu.edu> flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes: >Well, for the example I gave, the smallest applicable newsgroup by >volume is ... [or] If you mean smallest category ... [or] smallest >distribution ... [or] If you mean smallest chance of a good answer .... I think I mean `by volume'. (Likelihood of applicability also applies, however.) >And if the problem really is a defect in my understanding of malloc(), >then comp.lang.c is the best newsgroup to ask. Indeed. To return to the original: >``I'm having a problem with malloc() in Utah.'' The problem has >nothing to do with Utah (I hope), but where is the defect? Is it my >understanding of malloc, my understanding of C, my Zortech C compiler, >my copy of GNU malloc, my Amiga computer, my homebrew operating >system, my extended memory board, or my neighbor's cat? In this case, a reasonable approach would be to pick the thing you think is the most likely source of error. For instance, if you think the problem is in the C implementation, post to a newsgroup dealing (as exclusively as possible) with that implementation. If you think the problem is most likely in the GNU malloc, post to gnu.<whatever>. If you think the problem is most likely in your understanding of malloc, post to comp.lang.c. In any case, (a) state the problem; (b) give the details that are relevant to the newsgroup/problem-solving-group; (c) try to phrase the question such that it is relevant to the group. In other words, the comp.lang.c posting might say: ``I am not sure I am using malloc correctly. Here is the idea; here is the code. Is this correct? Please answer via electronic mail.'' while the comp.sys.amiga.tech posting might say: ``I tried the code below. It fails; I think it might be because there is a glitch in the extended memory hardware. If this is the case, how can I fix it?'' and so on. (Of course, you could post one article, cross-posted, with sections relevant to each newsgroup.) -- In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 7163) Domain: chris@cs.umd.edu Path: uunet!mimsy!chris
lwh@harpsichord.cis.ohio-state.edu (Loyde W. Hales II) (04/11/90)
In article <23648@mimsy.umd.edu> chris@mimsy.umd.edu (Chris Torek) writes: >>``I'm having a problem with malloc() in Utah.'' The problem has >>nothing to do with Utah (I hope), but where is the defect? Is it my >>understanding of malloc, my understanding of C, my Zortech C compiler, >>my copy of GNU malloc, my Amiga computer, my homebrew operating >>system, my extended memory board, or my neighbor's cat? >In this case, a reasonable approach would be to pick the thing you think >is the most likely source of error. For instance, if you think the problem >is in the C implementation, post to a newsgroup dealing (as exclusively >as possible) with that implementation. If you think the problem is >most likely in the GNU malloc, post to gnu.<whatever>. If you think >the problem is most likely in your understanding of malloc, post to >comp.lang.c. In any case, (a) state the problem; (b) give the details >that are relevant to the newsgroup/problem-solving-group; (c) try to >phrase the question such that it is relevant to the group. >In other words, the comp.lang.c posting might say: > ``I am not sure I am using malloc correctly. Here is the idea; here is > the code. Is this correct? Please answer via electronic mail.'' >while the comp.sys.amiga.tech posting might say: > ``I tried the code below. It fails; I think it might be because there is > a glitch in the extended memory hardware. If this is the case, how can > I fix it?'' >and so on. (Of course, you could post one article, cross-posted, with >sections relevant to each newsgroup.) To a point, I agree. There are, however, problems with the ``post only to the most likely newsgroup, then with only correct questions'' approach. 1. Who is to say which newsgroup is correct? No, I am not trying to be facetious. I've seen too many times when a question flamed on comp.lang.c was reposted to a different newsgroup, just to be flamed there. 2. Is it logical to expect someone with a problem to _know_ the cause? Sure, in some cases it is. There have been times, though, where I've had no idea if my problem was with Xlib, Xaw, Xmu, Xt, Sun, Unix, or the neighbor's cat. (She's really pretty, easily takes my attention. :-) 3. Should ``rules'' prevent quicker response? Anyone out there in business? :-) Then you know the problems with meeting deadlines. I'm not going to flame someone for wanting the quickest answer possible, and posting to 1+ newsgroups to get it. 4. Is there a ``most appropriate'' newsgroup? Answer here is frequently ``no,'' particularly when limited-use local sites are considered. My site is rather large, and we don't carry a newsgroup for every possible computer and compiler. 5. Do you have the right to restrict discussion? At a point, of course, the answer has to be ``yes.'' This is a matter of finding the point. I, among others, like the varried discussion carried on this newsgroup. I don't want to try to read 500 different newsgroups where most messages don't deal with C. I won't die if they disappear, but I question why you should complain that they are here. 6. You can always use the KILL file. Every news program I've seen (save one) has a search-and-kill option. If your major problem is with articles you feel deal with hardware-dependent issues, just junk the things. It isn't that hard to search for them. There are other arguments, but I don't want to cost the Net an additional $1000 to make them. I think the point gets across. Oh, and for the record, I have never posted an article to this newsgroup not dealing strictly with C, save for the arguments over whether it is valid to post said articles. -=- Department of Computer and Information Science Loyde W. Hales, II The Ohio State University lwh@cis.ohio-state.edu 2036 Neil Avenue Mall, Columbus, Ohio 43201
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (04/11/90)
In article <E0.dz85@cs.psu.edu> flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes: > Steve Watt <steve@wattres.UUCP> asks: > >It is called COMP.SYS.IBM.PC.PROGRAMMER!!!!!! > >But *why* can't we get people to use it???? > ``I'm having a problem with malloc() in Utah.'' There's nothing wrong with "I'm having a problem with malloc, I'm using Turbo C, etc...". It's the people who then carry the discussion to a comparison of the relative merits of Park City and Salt Lake City... I mean Turbo C and Microsoft C... that are the problem. We need a periodic posting for comp.lang.c, I fear. And some *polite* form letters for the folks who ask "what is int86(21), I know it's something to do with DOS, but..."? -- _--_|\ `-_-' Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>. / \ 'U` \_.--._/ v
gwollman@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Garrett A Wollman) (04/11/90)
OK, who volunteers to do the monthly (weekly?) posting? -GAWollman -- "All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and children. . . . As racial survival is the only universal morality, no other bases is possible." - Lazarus Long [RAH, _TEFL_] ---------------Hopkins doesn't *want* my opinions------------------------