[comp.lang.c] Power C

6500chng@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (B. N. Cheng) (09/12/90)

Anyone heard of powerC by MIX software ?
I 'd like to know if there's any known bugs or deficiencies. 

ath@prosys.se (Anders Thulin) (09/12/90)

In article <6266@hub.ucsb.edu> 6500chng@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (B. N. Cheng) writes:
>Anyone heard of powerC by MIX software ?
>I 'd like to know if there's any known bugs or deficiencies. 

To: 6500chng@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
Subject: Re: power c
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
In-Reply-To: <6266@hub.ucsb.edu>
Organization: Telesoft AB, Teknikringen 2A, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden
Cc: 
Bcc: 

In article <6266@hub.ucsb.edu> you write:
>Anyone heard of powerC by MIX software ?
>I 'd like to know if there's any known bugs or deficiencies. 

There are.

I bought version 2.0.0 earlier this year, mainly to see if the package
really was as good as everybody claimed.

I was surprised at the quality of the debugger: it is surprisingly good,
considered its price. In fact, it almost makes up for the compiler.

The compiler isn't quite as good. It does a fairly good job of
compiler correct programs, but it isn't good for developing.  I think
it is a K&R compiler extended to accept prototypes, and the ANSI stuff
in the preprocessor, but with no real knowledge about ANSI C.

Type checking is a joke. I could assign values to variables declared
to be 'const', I could use floats as parameters to functions that used
chars in the prototype, and so on without any complaints.

The compiler doesn't always use the ANSI C naming rules. For instance,
it uses a pseudo-function 'Defined(typename)' (not documented) which
is true if the named type has been defined - a good idea for avoiding
multiple definitions of the same type.  Unfortunately, 'Defined' is in
the user name space (according to ANSI), so if you have a program that
uses 'Defined' you're in for trouble. I had several.

There are several other little bugs: sprintf() doesn't work correctly for
some formats, rand()/srand() doesn't work at all as it should, Duff's
device fails to compile (no surprise), and so on, and so on.

I sent the MIX people a disk with around 14 bugs, some serious, in
March. I haven't heard from them, so I can't say how serious they are
about fixing bugs.

A minor problem is that Power C doesn't use the same object code
format that MSDOS uses: you can't use the standard linker.

I think MIX C is advertised as producing smaller executables than
several other compilers. I believe this is mainly due to their having
written large parts of the runtime in assembler. Big programs turned
out to be at least as large as with other compilers.

If you're don't plan to develop *big* programs, I'd say MIX Power C is
worth it's price. If you plan to do serious programming, I suggest
trying something else.

Hope this is of any help,

-- 
Anders Thulin       ath@prosys.se   {uunet,mcsun}!sunic!prosys!ath
Telesoft Europe AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden

hollen@megatek (Dion Hollenbeck) (09/12/90)

In article <6266@hub.ucsb.edu> 6500chng@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (B. N. Cheng) writes:
> 
> Anyone heard of powerC by MIX software ?
> I 'd like to know if there's any known bugs or deficiencies. 

Yes, this topic has been discussed SEVERAL times already.  Yes, there
are some bugs, what software does not have them?  They are minor
and not worth mentioning (in a year of use, I never encountered
them).  

Yes, there is a known deficiency.  The compiler produces .mix files,
not .obj files.  These .mix files are P-code files which are concatenated
onto a P-code interpreter to create the final .exe file which gets
run.  This is not to say that you cannot use assembly because MIX has
thoughtfully provided a .obj to .mix converter fro just this purpose,
just that debugging assembly is a real bitch and should be avoided
if possible.  The other deficiency is the lack of memory models,
but again, this is not a problem if you are just trying to learn C,
it will only hamper you if you need sophistication later on.

If you merely want to learn C and not grab the hardware by the balls,
then POWER C is THE BEST value on the market today.  The documentation
is unsurpassed, the debugger shames Codeview and TD and the price
is outrageously low.  The documentation is so good that I would 
recommend a beginner buying the compiler just for the documentation.
EVERY function call has a snatch of code on how to use it.

I have no connection with MIX other than a satisfied user of several
of their products.  I currently use Turbo C because I must combine
assembly with C and use more diverse memory models for my applicatons.




--
	Dion Hollenbeck             (619) 455-5590 x2814
	Megatek Corporation, 9645 Scranton Road, San Diego, CA  92121

        uunet!megatek!hollen       or  hollen@megatek.uucp

catfood@NCoast.ORG (Mark W. Schumann) (09/13/90)

In article <6266@hub.ucsb.edu> 6500chng@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (B. N. Cheng) writes:
>Anyone heard of powerC by MIX software ?
>I 'd like to know if there's any known bugs or deficiencies. 

Have I heard of it?  Only all day today trying to get through to
tech support!  You should probably avoid this product unless you
want to write some fairly simple programs that won't tax the
compiler's abilities.

I have had some problems with their new version 2.0.0, in the
code optimizer phase.  It gave me today an error for "Long Jump"
and their tech support people could not tell me exactly why it
happened (something to do with array bounds!), how to fix it,
or at least how to rewrite my code to work around it.  Even
though this was in the optimization phase, I couldn't use the
compiled object file because the optimization step cannot be
excluded as with some other compilers.

Finally, be aware that the object code produced by Power C
is in a proprietary format with an .MIX extension.  You can't
convert a .MIX file to an .OBJ without reverse engineering the
format; but you can convert some .OBJ files to .MIX format with
their MIX utility included.  I say "some" because they also cannot
explain why I keep getting an error message from MIX that says
it "Cannot process threads."  I asked Mix Software what a
thread was and why it can't be processed--no intelligble reply
other than "MASM doesn't make threads.  Use MASM."  So you can't
use a reasonably priced assembler to write drivers or error 
handlers either.

Hey, if you need something for quick and dirty C programming
that doesn't involve arrays of function pointers (another problem)
or mixed-language work, go for it.  It's great for the $25.  But
for real-life production work, get Turbo--not that much more
considering the whole environment (including debugger) that comes
with the Turbo C++ Professional package.


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dans@crpmks.UUCP (Dan Simoes ) (02/06/91)

I just received the latest "Byte block" or whatever it's called, and there is
an offer for "Power C -- the ANSI compatible C complier that runs faster than
Microsoft C, has more functions than Turbo C, and costs less than the K&R
book."  Sounds like another Coherent to me...
If anyone is using this, or has used it before, please let me know.
By the way, the price is $19.95!

Please email -- I *will* post a summary.
Thanks in advance,

Dan Simoes                             dans@crpmks.UUCP      (914) 785-2250
Manhattanville College '92             CIBA-Geigy Corp.
Disclaimer: que sera, sera
Quote: "Software is overpriced - lower the prices and there will be no
        piracy" (Me!)

gbastin@x102c.harris-atd.com (Gary Bastin 60293) (02/06/91)

In article <1450@crpmks.UUCP> dans@crpmks.UUCP (Dan Simoes (Info Systems)) writes:
>I just received the latest "Byte block" or whatever it's called, and there is
>an offer for "Power C -- the ANSI compatible C complier that runs faster than
>Microsoft C, has more functions than Turbo C, and costs less than the K&R
>book." 


[I tried mailing this directly, but it bounced...]

I have been using Power C for about 2 years now.  This includes
both versions 1.2, and the relatively recent version 2.0.  

It is a very good C compiler, giving performance (speed of .exe, and
size of .exe) that is comparable to Turbo C and usually better than
Microsoft C.  Although early versions limited you to just one
memory model, now there are multiple memory models available.  It 
tends to be compatible with Turbo, Microsoft and System V, with
almost a complete superset of functions that are available under
these.  The debugger (Ctrace) is much better than codeview or even
the debugger built into Turbo C.  Mix only charges $5.00 for upgrades
to later versions, and the source code is available for $10.00, and
this includes an assembler!

On the down side, if you have .LIB or .OBJ files that you wish to 
link, then, unfortunately, this is where Power C fails to perform.
Mix uses a proprietary .MIX object file format, and, although there
is a conversion utility, I have not been able to always link in
.OBJ or .LIB files created with Turbo C or Microsoft C.  If you
do not need to link in these files (you have all the source code), then
Power C is fine. This was the reason I bought Turbo C, BTW!

One last note:  the documentation provided with Power C is VASTLY
SUPERIOR to the documentation provided with Turbo C Version 2.0.  I
own both, and often refer to the Power C book because there are 
code snippets demonstrating each and every function.  For some
of the functions that I don't often use, the Power C book is a 
great timesaver.  I bought Power C when I was taking a course in
C programming, and it was great for learning C.  It is still very
useful now for day to day work, although Turbo C tends to produce
slightly smaller .exe files for the same source code.  Power C, though,
is a bargain; it is well worth the price (~$55 for compiler, debugger,
source code, and the excellent documentation!).  [ I have no
connection with Mix Software except as a satisfied customer ].


-- 
Gary Bastin, WB4YAF      /-/-/      Internet: gbastin@x102c.ess.harris.com
Mail Stop 102-4826         |        phone: (407) 729-3045
Harris Corporation GASD    |        
P.O.B. 94000, Melbourne FL 32902    Speaking from, but not for, Harris! 
Gary Bastin, WB4YAF      /-/-/      Internet: gbastin@x102c.ess.harris.com
Mail Stop 102-4826         |        phone: (407) 729-3045
Harris Corporation GASD    |        
P.O.B. 94000, Melbourne FL 32902    Speaking from, but not for, Harris! 

dave@tygra.UUCP (David Conrad) (02/11/91)

Hmm.  I recently received an advert for Power C.  They compared it with
Turbo C 1.5 and Microsoft C 4.0.  The latest TC is TC++ 1.0 which was to
have been TC 3.0, and the latest MSC is, I believe, 6.0.
 
BTW: Power C compared favorably in both speed of benchmarks and size of
executables with TC 1.5 and MSC 4.0.  Suprise, suprise.
 
Would you buy a used car from these people?
--
David R. Conrad
tygra!dave@sharkey.cc.umich.edu
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s64421@zeus.usq.EDU.AU (house ron) (02/15/91)

dave@tygra.UUCP (David Conrad) writes:

>Hmm.  I recently received an advert for Power C.  They compared it with
>Turbo C 1.5 and Microsoft C 4.0.  The latest TC is TC++ 1.0 which was to
>have been TC 3.0, and the latest MSC is, I believe, 6.0.
> 
>BTW: Power C compared favorably in both speed of benchmarks and size of
>executables with TC 1.5 and MSC 4.0.  Suprise, suprise.
> 
>Would you buy a used car from these people?

If it looked good and cost $19.95, yes.  Just what do some people want?

--
Regards,

Ron House.   (s64421@zeus.usq.edu.au)
(By post: Info Tech, U.C.S.Q. Toowoomba. Australia. 4350)

walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Todd Walk) (05/14/91)

	I'm needing to get a C compiler and I've limited my choices down to
two:  Turbo C++ (already have experience w/ this product), and Power C
(incredibly low price amoung other features).  Since I already have worked
with Turbo C++ and not at all with Power C, I'm wondering if anyone in this
newsgroup knows these things about Power C:

1:extent of both character based and graphics based windowing/menuing
  primitives.
2:whether it allows far functions w/ a small memory model.
3:whether it allows // for comments.
4:how thourgh the manuals are in explainations of functions (important:
  how good are the examples of function useage).
5:ease of use and creation of huge (>64K) arrays w/ a small memory model.
6:ems & xms support, overlay support.
7:286/386 support.
8:ease of insertion of asm. obj. files when compiling.
9:how good is the debugger? especially compared to TD386.
Email prefered.

					Todd Walk
					walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu