bcs@waikato.ac.nz (06/21/91)
In article <TARJEIJ.91Jun18084649@ulrik.uio.no>, tarjeij@ulrik.uio.no (Tarjei Jensen) writes: > I agree that Wirth is onto something. I don't dispute that oberon and modula2 > might be academically sound (you can do anything with them), but I think that > he has forgotten the programmer. There seems to be very little thought about > ergonomics (look and feel?) in his programming languages. > > I think somebody needs to do approximately the same to oberon as UCSD and > Borland did to Pascal. It is not accident that made Turbo Pascal outdo Modula > 2. > I'm getting tired of repeating this kind of stuff but here we go - this time electronically: 1. "academically sound" - what does this mean? So far as I am aware, neither language is based around any formalism. Do you mean that it persues the principles of orthogonality and uniformity to an extent you find inconvenient? IMHO this is better than a language which treats every circumstance differently, such a notation may have "look" but won't have much in the way of "feel". The only area in which I find M2 annoying from time to time is IO (I use the draft ISO std libraries rather than Wirth's PIM2) - and even there the solution(s) is simple: If there is an i/o format you reuse, code it as a routine and just call it; if it's a one-off you face it CANT be that much trouble to code! If you use the language sensibly, most reusable modules which provide an abstraction for which i/o is conceivable should provide i/o ops as exported routines. If you are *really* averse to the keyboard, consider a powerful editor which might take the strain for you - emacs springs to mind. A programming language is merely a notation with semantics attached - nowhere does it say you have to type each keystroke. 2. Turbo Pascal vs. M2 - Well, "outdo" is an interesting word. Does this mean that Turbo Pascal is an intrinsically faster or more complete language than M2? Does it mean that it sells more? (great metric!) Does it mean that TP is more portable than M2? (I program on PC and Unix platforms) I think we are at last nearing the day when programmers and project managers are actually going to take portability seriously - and they *aren't* going to be looking at ad-hoc single-platform extensions to languages for serious work. Something that few seem to remember: Pascal was never designed to be a production language, and dressing it up won't take it's weaknesses away - it can only plaster up the cracks. Health, Brent +-Brent Summers, U of Waikato, NZ----------------------------------------+ | "Laugh and the world ignores you. Crying doesn't help either." | | All opinions expressed are, of course, solely my own errors. | +------------------------------------------------------bcs@waikato.ac.nz-+
88132293@BRUFSC.BITNET (06/21/91)
>+-Brent Summers, U of Waikato, NZ----------------------------------------+ >| "Laugh and the world ignores you. Crying doesn't help either." | >| All opinions expressed are, of course, solely my own errors. | >+-------------------------------------------------/|\--bcs@waikato.ac.nz-+ | I like this ---------------------------------- Pluspa