neves@ai.cs.wisc.edu (David M. Neves) (06/29/89)
In article <3182@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ags@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman) writes: > >Nobody mentioned UCSD Pascal, for a very good reason: UCSD Pascal is as far >removed from the standard as Turbo is, but in a slightly different direction. I have a related question. When people talk about Pascal-style strings they describe the string type as it exists in UCSD/Turbo Pascal where the length is kept in the first byte/word of the string. Did UCSD invent this string representation? I have been told that strings are not a part of ANSI Pascal. Are they a part of any other standard or extended standard? -thanks, david ;David Neves, Computer Sciences Department, University of Wisconsin-Madison ;Usenet: {rutgers,ucbvax}!uwvax!neves ;Arpanet: neves@cs.wisc.edu
chip@hpclisp.HP.COM (Chip Chapin) (06/30/89)
Regarding the following... >/ acm9@apple.ucsb.edu (Mike O'Brien) / 4:06 pm Jun 27, 1989 / >In article <4757@freja.diku.dk> dat0@freja.diku.dk (Dat-0 undervisningsassistent) writes: >>Since we are about to switch from CP/M-computers to MS-DOS-computers, I was >>wondering if there exist a truly standard Pascal-compiler running on >>MS-DOS-computers on the market. > >I think everyone would agree that Borland International's "Turbo Pascal" >is the current standard in MS-DOS. It compiles faster, and makes faster >and tighter EXE files, than any other Pascal on the market. The vast >majority of the people on this newsgroup also seem to use Turbo Pascal. I believe the poster is requesting information on an ISO-standard Pascal compiler for MSDOS. I have no beef with Turbo, and would agree that it is certainly a de facto standard of sorts, due to large number satisfied customers. But it is far from the ISO-standard. In INFOWORLD tests of Pascal compilers last year (Sept 12, 1988), TP4.0 actually scored the LOWEST in terms passing the validation test suite (72%) (it also received the HIGHEST value score, 8.2). Included in the comparisons were Pascal compilers from Metaware, Microsoft, and Oregon Software. Here are some overall scores from the article: Compiler Validation ReportCard (10 == best) ======= ========== ========== Oregon Software Pascal-2.1m 99% 6.6 Metaware Pascal 2.7 91% 6.0 Microsoft Pascal 4.0 84% 7.2 Borland Turbo Pascal 4.0 72% 8.2 It's interesting to note that the percentage of validation tests passed seems to be inversely proportional to the overall report card score assigned by InfoWorld. The Oregon Software Pascal is reasonably priced at $229. It's relatively low overall score is mostly due to InfoWorld's heavy weighting of the programming environment provided and obscures the fact that its ratings were mostly VeryGood and Excellent (Pascal-2 uses the traditional edit-compile-link-[run/debug] cycle rather than a snazy integrated scheme like Turbo). It includes a number of Turbo-compatible libraries, and is InfoWorld's compiler of choice for users that "need to write programs that will run on systems other than MS-DOS". Since Pascal standardization is a much greater issue in Europe than in the USA, it would be my personal recommendation as well. Oregon Software 695 S.W. Macadam Ave., Suite 200 Portland, OR 97219 800/874-8501, or 503/245-2202 Disclaimer: My comments are not the official opinion of Hewlett Packard. ------------------------------------------------------------ Chip Chapin -- HP Computer Language Lab uucp: ... {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax} !hplabs!hpda!chip or ... chip%hpda@hplabs.hp.com HPDesk: chip (hpda) /HPUNIX/UX USMail: 47LZ; 19420 Homestead Ave; Cupertino, CA 95014 Phone: 408/447-5735 HPTelnet: 1-447-5735 -------------------------------------------------------------
ags@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman) (06/30/89)
In article <7716@spool.cs.wisc.edu> neves@ai.cs.wisc.edu (David M. Neves) writes: >In article <3182@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ags@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman) writes: >I have a related question. When people talk about Pascal-style >strings they describe the string type as it exists in UCSD/Turbo >Pascal where the length is kept in the first byte/word of the string. >Did UCSD invent this string representation? I have been told that >strings are not a part of ANSI Pascal. Are they a part of any other >standard or extended standard? "Pascal-style" strings with the length kept in the first byte are indeed not a part of ANSI Pascal (or ISO, or J&W). I don't know who did it first, but two of the early entries were PASCAL/Z (for Z-80 systems) and UCSD Pascal. A similar method (with slightly different syntax) was and is used by IBM in their Pascal/VS (a forerunner of today's VS Pascal) on mainframes. The idea has caught on and is now included in most microcomputer implementations of Pascal. None of this should be confused with conformant arrays (ISO standard, level 1), which is another matter altogether.
FINEBERG%WUMS.BITNET@uicvm.uic.edu (07/01/89)
I would also highly recommend Oregon Software's Pascal-2. I have been using their software for other systems and have found them extremely helpfull whenever I had questions or bugs to report. I do however wonder what validation test they failed, I have always found that their compiler would handle every legal Pascal program as defined by Wirth & Jensen. I even have been assuming that Pascal-2 is correct and I'd better be damn sure before I claimed they made a mistake when I run into problems. > Oregon Software > 695 S.W. Macadam Ave., Suite 200 > Portland, OR 97219 > 800/874-8501, or 503/245-2202 Charlie Fineberg BitNet: FINEBERG_C@WUMS Washington University School of Medicine Department of Anatomy and Neurobiology 4566 Scott, Box 8108 St. Louis, MO 63110
soper@xenna.UUCP (Pete Soper,,,) (07/01/89)
From article <20155@adm.BRL.MIL>, by FINEBERG%WUMS.BITNET@uicvm.uic.edu: > > I would also highly recommend Oregon Software's Pascal-2. I have been > using their software for other systems and have found them extremely > helpfull whenever I had questions or bugs to report. I do however wonder > what validation test they failed, I have always found that their compiler > would handle every legal Pascal program as defined by Wirth & Jensen. I > even have been assuming that Pascal-2 is correct and I'd better be damn > sure before I claimed they made a mistake when I run into problems. Keep in mind that validation suites are frequently not static. New, more rigorous versions are put out. When a new comes out, it may trip up up existing compilers which are then updated to tighten conformance. It would be a mistake to assume a compiler is perfect just because it passes all the tests of a validation suite. The suites are usually comprehensive, but are never close to comprehensive enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete Soper +1 919 481 3730 arpa: soper@encore.com uucp: {bu-cs,decvax,necntc}!encore!soper Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA
chip@hpclisp.HP.COM (Chip Chapin) (07/04/89)
/ ags@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman) / 12:38 pm Jun 29, 1989 / In article <7716@spool.cs.wisc.edu> neves@ai.cs.wisc.edu (David M. Neves) writes: >>In article <3182@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ags@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman) writes: >>I have a related question. When people talk about Pascal-style >>strings they describe the string type as it exists in UCSD/Turbo >>Pascal where the length is kept in the first byte/word of the string. >>Did UCSD invent this string representation? I have been told that >>strings are not a part of ANSI Pascal. Are they a part of any other >>standard or extended standard? > >"Pascal-style" strings with the length kept in the first byte are indeed not a >part of ANSI Pascal (or ISO, or J&W). I don't know who did it first, but two >of the early entries were PASCAL/Z (for Z-80 systems) and UCSD Pascal. A UCSD was definitely before Pascal/Z. The UCSD string representation was in use at least a year before the release in 1977 of UCSD Pascal for the PDP-11 (shortly followed by the Z80/8080 release). I don't remember seeing any other Z80 or 8080 Pascals until Mike Lehman's Pascal-MT+ in 1979 or 1980. I think Pascal/Z followed Pascal-MT+, but I can't be sure. > ... >None of this should be confused with conformant arrays (ISO standard, level 1), >which is another matter altogether. Interestingly, Oregon Software's current Pascal-2 implementation seems to implement UCSD-style strings entirely within the standard Pascal language by using conformant arrays. Of course conformant arrays weren't available at UCSD in 1977... Chip "UCSD '78" Chapin ------------------------------------------------------------- Chip Chapin -- HP Computer Language Lab uucp: ... {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax} !hplabs!hpda!chip or ... chip%hpda@hplabs.hp.com HPDesk: chip (hpda) /HPUNIX/UX USMail: 47LZ; 19420 Homestead Ave; Cupertino, CA 95014 Phone: 408/447-5735 HPTelnet: 1-447-5735 -------------------------------------------------------------