CDCKAB%EMUVM1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl Brendel) (12/12/90)
Thomas Jenkins, go sell your old software.
Mark Kuebeler and others:
Hoping (without much faith) that this discussion will stop _soon_, I
would urge all to RTFNNLS (No-Nonsense License Statement). The copy at
hand (inside front cover, TPas 5.0 Ref Guide--later versions had
separate cards with the statement) says:
Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement!
This software is protected by both United States copyright law and
international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat this
software _just like a book_, with the following single exception.
Borland International authorizes you to make archival copies of the
software for the sole purpose of backing-up our software and
protecting your investment from loss.
By saying, "just like a book," Borland means, for example, that this
software may be used by any number of people and may be freely moved
from one computer location to another, so long as there is _no
possibility_ of it being used at one location while it's being used at
another. Just like a book that can't be read by two different people
in two different places at the same time, neither can the software be
used by two different people in two different places at the same time.
(Unless, of course, Borland's copyright has been violated.)
End of quotation. All emphasis shown existed in the original. The
remainder of the statement addresses distribution of compiled
programs, sample programs and .BGI files, the proprietary nature of
some files, requirements for copyright notices, warranties, and
governing law.
Nowhere in the statement is any indication given that you cannot sell
old versions, just as you would sell an outdated textbook, as long as
you don't retain a copy of what you sell. Borland says "just like a
book," with a "single exception."
Perhaps you'll be pleased to know that this is probably the only
public statement I'll make on this subject. ;)
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| Karl Brendel Centers for Disease Control |
| Internet: CDCKAB@EMUVM1.BITNET Epidemiology Program Office |
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+--------------------------------------------------------------------+pschwart@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Paul Schwartz) (12/12/90)
In article <25246@adm.brl.mil>, CDCKAB%EMUVM1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl Brendel) writes... > > Bunch of stuff about Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement! > > >Nowhere in the statement is any indication given that you cannot sell >old versions, just as you would sell an outdated textbook, as long as >you don't retain a copy of what you sell. > TRUE. But you cannot upgrade a textbook. Alas, over my confussion I called Borland. They said if I want to sell my TP 5.5 I need to send them a letter agreeing to the following conditions: I give up all rights to use TP 5.5 I have no copies of TP 5.5 on disk I have no copies of TP 5.5 on my computer And, I give up all future upgrade rights to TP 5.5 I'm not sure what that final condition means, but if you are wondering, B-land can be reached at (408) 438-5300 (to skip the boring voice mail into, just press 2 twice, that will take you to a customer rep). So, anyone want to buy my copy of TP 5.5? - Z - +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PauL M SchwartZ | | | PSCHWART@macc.wisc.edu | Your message here... | | PSCHWART@wiscmacc.BitNet | only 5$ per post | | (608)255-5702 | | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
hp0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Hokkun Pang) (12/12/90)
anyone want to buy mine? I brought 5.0 and 5.5 seperately. (I got *two* upgrade coupons from Borland, each to a different address). Make me an offer. :-)
CDCKAB%EMUVM1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl Brendel) (12/13/90)
In article 4959@dogie.macc.wisc.edu, pschwart@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Paul Schwartz) writes: >In article <25246@adm.brl.mil>, CDCKAB%EMUVM1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl > Brendel) writes... >> >> Bunch of stuff about Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement! >> >> >>Nowhere in the statement is any indication given that you cannot sell >>old versions, just as you would sell an outdated textbook, as long as >>you don't retain a copy of what you sell. >> > TRUE. But you cannot upgrade a textbook. It depends on what you mean by "upgrade", I suppose. More to the point, when Borland said, "just like a book ... single exception", they gave up all rights to further restrict your disposition of your old versions... > > Alas, over my confussion I called Borland. They said if I want to sell >my TP 5.5 I need to send them a letter agreeing to the following conditions: > I give up all rights to use TP 5.5 > I have no copies of TP 5.5 on disk > I have no copies of TP 5.5 on my computer > And, I give up all future upgrade rights to TP 5.5 [remainder deleted] ...OR to "require" letters from you before you dispose of your old versions! Here's another report from Borland customer service, with a name and personal extension to check it out. From the RIME (BBS network) Turbo Pascal conference: Date: 12-10-90 (21:15) Number: 3198 of 3206 To: ALL INTERESTED PARTIES! Refer#: 3002 From: MIKE ......... Read: NO Subj: (R)TURBO PASCAL 3 AND 5.0 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: TURBOPASCAL (245) Read Type: GENERAL To All Interested Parties, This thread has been most interesting. Everyone here has spent considerable time speculating on an issue that could have been resolved with a simple phone call. Well, enough already. I called Borland today (12/10/90) to put this issue to rest. I found out some VERY interesting things! First: If your upgrade came complete with a full set of manuals (not just an addendum, such as came with TP 5.5 upgrades), you may do whatever you wish with the copy that you are upgrading from. You may give it away. You may sell it. You may burn it. As far as Borland is concerned, you own it (that's right _OWN_ it) and you can do with it what you wish! Furthermore, if you transfer ownership of your old version to someone else, that other party may notify Borland of that fact and as the new owner (there's that word again!) this person is entitled to the same fine support that you enjoyed will you owned (!) the product. In other words: Ronald Reagan upgrades to TP 6.0. Mommy makes him sell his TP 5.5. He sells it to George Bush. George calls Borland and tells them that he just purchased TP 5.5 S/N 1234567 from Ronald Reagan. George may now enjoy Borland support as a registered TP 5.5 user, Ron may not. Ron, however, may still enjoy the full support he deserves as a TP 6.0 user. And that is what Borland's no-nonsense liscense policy is about. No need for copyright lawyers to use the product. BTW, anyone who refuses to take my word for it can call Borland themselves. Vince said that he didn't mind if quoted him and referred any callers to him. He can be reached either by calling Borland's switchboard - (408) 438-8400 - and and asking for him (he is the only Vince there) or you can call his extension directly - (408) 439-1315. [remainder of RIME article deals with the continuing availability of Turbo Pascal 3 for some systems] Don't worry about the letters when you sell your obsolete version, Paul. ;) +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Karl Brendel Centers for Disease Control | | Internet: CDCKAB@EMUVM1.BITNET Epidemiology Program Office | | Bitnet: CDCKAB@EMUVM1 Atlanta, GA, USA | | Home of Epi Info 5.0 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
jfr@locus.com (Jon Rosen) (12/14/90)
In article <25254@adm.brl.mil> CDCKAB%EMUVM1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl Brendel) writes: >In article 4959@dogie.macc.wisc.edu, pschwart@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Paul > Schwartz) writes: > >>In article <25246@adm.brl.mil>, CDCKAB%EMUVM1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu ( Karl >> Brendel) writes... >>> >>> Bunch of stuff about Borland's No-Nonsense License Statement! >>> >>> I don't know who Vince is but you are missing a few key elements... First, does George Bush (of your story) now have the right to upgrade his newly acquired used version of Turbo 5.5 to T6.0??? If so, it would seem that ANYONE could get the upgrade price just by passing around the one copy of Turbo 5.5 that exists... This is clearly not what Borland would intend to have happen... Second, as noted in an earlier post, you can't *upgrade* a book... You buy a later version... Usually at full list (or slightly discounted) price... The problem in the software industry is that the original manufacturer provides the upgrade path and that tends to compete with the manufacturer's distributors (ala Egghead software, etc.)... Since upgrades in software usually cost LESS than the original (sometimes, much less) there is a real conflict here. Another point, if a *free* upgrade offer is made to purchasers of a given version like T5.5 within 30 days of purchase, would it now be possible for George Bush to buy his copy from Reagan for $1, call Borland for his free upgrade, sell his T5.5 to Dan Quayle for $1 who would also call Borland for his free upgrade... ad nauseum... Anyway, even if Borland does intend for all of the above to be possible (which I doubt), the obvious intent is to restrict the use of software to one person (including most upgrades)... By the way, given the available street price of most software these days (not list... if you pay list, I have a bridge to sell you) is so low that the upgrades don't cost much less than the original. In that case, I suggest buying a new copy (not an upgrade) and selling the original with a clear conscience... Or, better yet, if you are philathropical, donate it to your local school or charitable organization that has a PC and write it off your income taxes... Yeah, that's the ticket, make Uncle Sam pay for some of your software... you're paying for his... Jon R
a499@mindlink.UUCP (Robert Salesas) (12/16/90)
One point to remember is that "License Agreements" inside the box at the time of purchase have been found legally unbinding. This is true in Canada and (I believe) the United States, from what I've heard. Anyone hear otherwise? Rob