ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) (04/15/91)
> From: davidjl@eecs.ee.pdx.edu (David J Leitko) > Subject: RE: Distribution of BGI files... > To: ts@uwasa.fi > Date: Sun, 14 Apr 91 14:41:06 PDT > > I've gotten used to your rude, obnoxious responses to novice questions in > comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d, etc. As matter of fact, I am surprised when I don't > see you respond to a novice question with some condescending remark. Why > don't you try to give these guys a little respect? Remember, you were a > novice once. And to distribute mis-information simply adds injury to insult. > > I've also seen you put more effort into finding one of your programs that > demonstrates how to do something so they can "ftp it from garbo" than it > would have taken to type in the whole three line program. What a waste! > Especially when you are continuously trying to discourage people from abusing > the trans-Atlantic links to Europe. > > Now don't get me wrong, I'm not urging you to _stop_ responding to these > people, because you have been known to provide useful information. And > I know how it feels to post an intelligent question and get _no_ reply. > What I am suggesting is that you re-evaluate the attitude you portray in > your responses to FAQs and novice questions. > > Thank you. > > David Leitko > > -- > David J Leitko "Bleah!..." davidjl@eecs.cs.pdx.edu > Computer Science Department ..!uunet!tektronix!pdxgate!davidjl > Portland State University > Portland, Oregon This space intentionally left blank. I'll answer these accusations also publicly since according to your message I keep insulting users of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d (etc) with rude, obnoxious messages. Be this as may, all feedback is naturally very welcome, also critical, and I appreciate the effort you have put into writing your feedback. I am also pleased to hear that you yet consider some of my work to have been known to be useful. As we recall from comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d moderator's (Bill Davidsen) comments, one of the problems of c.b.i.p.d. (and the other groups) is the drifting of the subjects of the messages. One of the problematic growing categories has been the "whereis" postings. There is a difficult borderline here. In many cases the user would easily find the answer, if s/he cared to look at the readily available file lists. On the other hand there are also many cases where the need of help is genuine, and then of course we should try to help. But it is often difficult to know with the scant background information given. Perhaps it is no real excuse, but I have also put in an innumerable number of hours to try to gather and anticipate questions whose answers would be of use to users, and help them (and me) to better find our way around in the net and ftp sites, and get best value out of them. I take that you find annoying my frequent references to this readily available material. I take the liberty of inferring that you especially object to my method of answering questions with pointers to where the answers are rather than giving the direct answers. There are reasons for this method. It is more generic. It means that the same answers probably do not have to be repeated so often. Whether this method takes more or less text than giving the actual, full answer is not the real issue. This is only my opinion, and many users may disagree, but I think that it is more productive in the long run to help people to know how to easily find answers to their questions rather than simply feed all the answers. Of course, there must be a balance in this. And one further obvious point. Giving pointers to answers is much easier than writing the whole answer. A pointer to answers, and the prerecorded answers are much less prone to errors than an answer written on the fly. The same naturally goes for pointing to file lists instead of trying to recall all the names of the utilities by heart, or go searching for them at this end of things. Moderating an ftp site is sometimes a thankless task, where one occasionally just gets abuse from people who expect something for nothing. I've always been amazed by people's inclination to complain about free services. There is no monetary compensation for me (nor am I looking for it) from file maintenance and distributing the files, and if I often mention my own programming work (yes, I do, I readily admit to that sin), that's the "price tag" that comes with my imposed free services. - There are, of course, also good moments in moderating, usually thanks to a rather limited, and a very dedicated brand of people who help in maitenance giving information, write and/or upload programs that the rest of the net have the opportunity to enjoy, in most cases for quite free. I recall when I started posting the download statistics from our site to comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d (which I still think had a lot of generic information value whether one uses our site or not) there was an upproar, and I decided to limit to the distribution to the users on my garbo-infolist mailing list only. Also I shifted much of my postings to be by email only, and at the same time to gather the carbon copies of these emailed "posting" for general download for those who might be interested. I'll reconsider utilizing these options still more heavily, and refrain more from public posting, if my postings are considered this offensive. As a detail, might this debacle be yet another case for splitting comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d just as Bill Davidsen has suggested. Where did that discussion vanish, anyway? In any case, my collective apologies if I have been offending the users of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d, comp.os.msdos,programmer, and comp.lang.pascal etc with my activities and postings. That has certainly not been my intention. ................................................................... Prof. Timo Salmi Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.12.37 School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun
fsbrn@BRL.MIL ( Ferd Brundick) (04/15/91)
Hi,
I run the info-pascal mailing list, and it is my site that provides
the info-pascal <--> comp.lang.pascal gateway. Since the list isn't
moderated, my primary tasks are to add and delete subscribers.
Anyway, I appreciate Timo's FAQ list. Anyone who reads news on a
regular basis quickly discovers that questions seem to follow a 6 month
cycle. Someone will ask a question, there will be a long discussion
about it, and then several months later a new subscriber who missed
the first exchange will ask the same question. Not only is this boring
and wasteful, but I'm sure some points are forgotten the second (and
third and ...) time.
I used to clean up the mail archives and keep copies on my host. (Due
to lack of availability and disk space, the archives are at simtel20.)
When someone without ftp access needed a file I would mail it to them.
I didn't feel comfortable saying "What you need has been discussed.
Go dig the file out for yourself". Once the gateway was installed the
volume of mail became too large for me to keep up with it.
Now we have Timo maintaining (on his own) the FAQ list, which in
essence is a condensed version of common discussions. I'd rather be
told how to get the FAQ than receive a brief answer that is incomplete.
I suppose Timo could post the pertinent answer, but I'm sure he has
better things to do than play mailman all day.
I hope I've made my point. Don't look a gift FAQ in the mouth.
dsw, fferd
Fred S. Brundick
aka Pascal Postman
USABRL, APG, MD.
<info-pascal-request@brl.mil>rind@popvax.uucp (747707@d.rind) (04/15/91)
I can't speak to the other groups listed in the original message's distribution list, but in comp.lang.pascal, I have found Mr. Salmi's postings to be very useful. I do think the tone may occasionally offend novice posters, but it is easy to understand mild irritation from answering the same question over and over. For me, it has been much more useful to know the FTP site at garbo exists, then to get specific answers from this news group. It would be more useful if source code were always available as well, since if I can't figure out how to do something I'd like to learn from those who have solved the problem, but since the service is provided free (and presumably at significant time and effort of those who maintain it) I am hardly in a position to complain. By repeatedly posting that people should check Garbo, Mr. Salmi lets us all know the large variety of answers that can be found at that site. David Rind rind@popvax.harvard.edu