eugene@pioneer.UUCP (02/06/87)
I was moved by John Chambers posting: Subject: Re: James Burke Summary: ...losses have occurred... >Well, the historic record has shown a few losses. It was just recently >that someone finally figured out how to make Damascus steel. We no longer >know how to make concrete that is as stable as some of the stuff used to >build the Roman roads, and is still good after a couple millenia. There >are probably some historians around who will add to the list (hint). > >It has been observed that a culture is only as old as its oldest member. >Technology only exists, in any usable sense, if we have people who can >understand it. It would be very easy to lose a lot of things. > >Consider, for example, the growing disaster in math and science education >in the American public school system. We are in serious danger of having >a population that is mostly ignorant couch potatoes,. . . > >There was a curious example of technology loss back during the Vietnam >years. One of the Viet Cong's effective techniques was to make crossbows >out of non-metallic materials. . . . >Modern military people tend to sneer, of course, which only added to the >vulnerability of a lot of soldiers. [This is really an example of arrogance >rather than technological loss.] > >Oh, yes, another loss: Back in the 40's and early 50's, we had high-school >biology texts that did a reasonably good job of introducing t he concept of >evolution..... > >As for technology working forever, well, antibiotics and pesticides don't. > >-- > John M Chambers Phone: 617/364-2000x7304 I've not seen a follow-up, since I sent mail to the person who started this. I would like to add a personal note. I liked the Connections program (since when I was in the public schools, I did not like the study of history). The show had an interesting slant and I think James Burke would like everyone to understand that. I know this because I fight new technology battles all the time (If it works, don't fix it..... build a better mouse trap; reinventing the wheel...your have to to get Michelins...). So after the series, I called up Lynn White at UCLA (I first heard of White in a UC history class). We had a short discussion where he gave me Burke's address and work phone. I think the one thing Burke wants to get across and not mentioned is that history does not progress in a nice linear fashion as history books tend to portrary it. I agree that the American education establishment is in a shambles. I'm glad I made it thru college before the crunch (only $600 in loans, the rest grants and scholarships). I find it ironic that (using the military example above) that we are placing illiterate high-school grads into complex weapons systems like an M-1 tank, and the military has to train their soldiers to read. Perhaps, what we need in this country is to designate and preserve some of it's people like living historic monuments as they do in Japan. I don't know, that's only a drop. We have to lose that arrogance that John talks about. I've also seen many other fine postings on this subject. Technology exists as a fragile thread. It distresses me that we are discussing the merits of astrology in sci.astro. But it is not worth my time to argue against it in that group. As Feynman said, "We do not live in a scientific society." [Cargo-cult science lecture.] Other proposals to "save society?" From the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers: --eugene miya NASA Ames Research Center eugene@ames-aurora.ARPA "You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?" "Send mail, avoid follow-ups. If enough, I'll summarize." {hplabs,hao,nike,ihnp4,decwrl,allegra,tektronix,menlo70}!ames!aurora!eugene P.S. Please don't be a network couch potatoe.
campbelr@hpisof0.UUCP (02/12/87)
Burke was not so much in love with computers, but seemed to be fascinated by the power they can bring. If you remember how several shows would talk about the ability to predict the flooding of the Nile led to central govern- ment and a priesthood. But that the knowledge some had for themselves gave power. Computers can either give information to the world, making it more free, or groups can control information and get control over large groups. Think of how your credit history will follow you forever and how easy it is for your life to be inspected. Computer engineers generally used computers for their own sake. But to a politician or business man it gives the power to deal with mobs individually. Could Russia exist as it does now if information moved easily and every house had desktop publishing? (Not to start a Capitalist/Communist debate) Bob Campbell hplabs!hpdsd!campbelr