keithr@tekecs.TEK.COM (Keith Rowell) (03/17/88)
In response to an earlier posting, Gordon Fitch said: >Okay, I'm ready to believe. Where's the stuff? Not books, >the stuff: wrecked UFOs of strange metal, little gray bodies >dead or alive, and so on. (At least you realize they are *gray* and not *green* now! :-)) Gordon, if you lived in France and paid attention to official French government announcements, you probably wouldn't be asking these questions, that is, if you are inclined to believe official government information. Gordon, will you believe official U.S. government announcements if they assure you that genuine UFOs exist? How about when the U.S. government announces that yes it does have crashed saucers along with little alien bodies, but sorry, don't ask to see them at this time? How about when the U.S. government says yes it has them and you can go see them in the Smithsonian? My point is at what point will you believe that flying saucers are real? In view of the record of lying and deception on the part of the FBI, the Office of the President during some administrations, and on the part of the military during Vietnam and the CIA constantly, I'm not sure I would view the Smithsonian saucers as anything more than a grand deception. However, when you add to the government announcements the massive worldwide evidence gathered by private organizations through the efforts of individuals over 40 years time, you finally have some reasonable evidence. However, the agreement of three sectors of society -- the government, private unaffiliated individual investigators, and the scientific, scholarly, media establishment -- must occur before we can accept the bizarre as a part of our reality. In France, at least two parts are there. In the U.S., only one as we know, of course. In 1977, the government of France began an official, open, and above aboard investigation of UFO reports. The group formed to do this investigation is Groupe D'Etudes des Phenomenes Aerospatiaux Non Identifies (GEPAN). It is a part of France's NASA, Centre National D'Etudes Spatiales (CNES). GEPAN has published official, public reports about the results of its investigations. These state in essence that there *is* a genuine UFO phenomenon, something that MUFON, CUFOS, BUFORA, FUROR, etc., assert and the very thing that Philip Klass and CSICOP vociferously deny. (From Margaret Sachs' The UFO Encyclopedia (Putnam (Perigee Books), 1980, ISBN 0-399-12365-2) in the article on GEPAN, "In an analysis of eleven cases studied in 1978, the group [GEPAN] concluded that in nine of the cases a physical phenomenon was involved whose description compared to a flying machine whose origin and propulsion and/or sustenance systems are beyond human knowledge." It seems pretty clear to me. We have some genuine UFOs flying around. Perhaps you would like to read about events that preceded formation of GEPAN in an English translation of a French book that was published over ten years ago. Unfortunately, this English translation is not easy to come by in America. I don't in fact have a copy of this book myself. I quote the annotated bibliographic entry from Jenny Randles and Peter Warrington's Science and the UFOs, (Basil Blackwell, 1985; ISBN 0-631-13563-4): Bourret, J.-C. , The Crack in the Universe (Spearman, 1977). Translated into English by UFO scholar Gordon Creighton. This is a detailed transcript of a long series of programmes transmitted on French national radio in 1974. Various UFO experts and scientists discuss UFO cases and theories, and the book contains a transcript of the interview with the French Minister of Defence in which he admitted that UFOs exist. In the middle 1970s, partly because of the frank acknowledgment by the French government of the reality of a genuine UFO phenomenon, speculation arose in the U.S. that the U.S. government would also at that time divulge what it knew about UFOs. As we know, this did not happen. U.S. researchers are still working on this, and it is the U.S. that apparently has the crashed saucers and alien bodies not France. Won't you help us pry the hard evidence out of the U.S? Thanks for your response. Keith Rowell -- -Keith Rowell, Tektronix, Wilsonville, OR keithr@tekecs.TEK.COM {ucbvax,decvax,uw-beaver,hplabs,ihnp4,allegra}!tektronix!tekecs!keithr
gcf@actnyc.UUCP (Gordon Fitch) (03/17/88)
In article <9840@tekecs.TEK.COM> keithr@tekecs.TEK.COM (Keith Rowell) writes: } } In response to an earlier posting, Gordon Fitch said: } } } Okay, I'm ready to believe. Where's the stuff? Not books, } } the stuff: wrecked UFOs of strange metal, little gray bodies } } dead or alive, and so on. } } (At least you realize they are *gray* and not *green* now! :-)) } } Gordon, if you lived in France and paid attention to official } French government announcements, you probably wouldn't be asking } these questions, that is, if you are inclined to believe } official government information. I'm not. I regard government information as untrustworthy. It is like newspaper and television information, except the media are more careful in some circumstances because they _can_ be sued and they _can't_ print money. } } ... [stuff about US government as source of information] ... } } In 1977, the government of France began an official, open, and } above aboard investigation of UFO reports. The group formed to } do this investigation is Groupe D'Etudes des Phenomenes } Aerospatiaux Non Identifies (GEPAN)... (From Margaret Sachs' The UFO } Encyclopedia (Putnam (Perigee Books), 1980, ISBN 0-399-12365-2) } in the article on GEPAN, "In an analysis of eleven cases } studied in 1978, the group [GEPAN] concluded that in nine of the } cases a physical phenomenon was involved whose description } compared to a flying machine whose origin and propulsion and/or } sustenance systems are beyond human knowledge." It seems } pretty clear to me. We have some genuine UFOs flying around. Now we have a book about a book. I want _stuff_. It does not follow from the observation of the appearance of unidentifiable flying objects that they are what is usually mean by "UFO", that is, a flying device or being of extraterrestrial origin. I have met people who I regard as veracious who have related such observations to me and I do not doubt that such phenomena are observed. Nor do I doubt that it is _possible_ that such observations are actually of extraterrestrials. So what?