orb@whuts.UUCP (SEVENER) (03/22/88)
In article <119@aplcomm.UUCP> jwm@stdc.jhuapl.edu.UUCP (James W. Meritt) writes: >In article <3925@whuts.UUCP> orb@whuts.UUCP (45263-SEVENER,T.J.) writes: >. Refraction *only* occurs in a *non*uniform medium or when going from >. one uniform medium to another. > >I notice that your references contain nothing on meterology. Perhaps this >is a cause of your misunderstanding? > >While refraction occurs only in a non-uniform medium, a large number >of people would contend that the atmosphere is not such a media. >Thousands of meterologist, for instance. Anybody that observes things >through an atmosphere, and not straight up. As evidence to this >non-uniformity, go outside and look at a hot road. Do you "see" a >"puddle of water" (or in memory, have you?)? When you get there, it is >gone, yes? (ok, sometimes it really is a puddle, I mean besides those!) >What you see there is the sky! We have here light refracted dozens of degrees >in just a few feet of air! And the atmosphere changes radically due to >temperature (note: Cuba is _VERY_ warm, I have seen 106, water temp in 80's. >This is a good gradient) and humidity (100% on water surface, less on >up. Entire area is muggy, though). > >Are you sufficiently closed minded that you cannot admit there are >things about which you do not know, or sufficiently prideful that >you cannot "back out"? Yes, there are atmospheric anomalies. So what? How many of you have ever lived near a fairly large body of water? Such as the Chesapeake Bay, any of the Great Lakes, or an Ocean coast. Could you see the other side? No. How many of you have been to Key West? Please tap your keyboards. How many of you could see anything besides the horizon? Right. None. Except the Reaganistas like Michael Friedman.... I have already proven that under ordinary conditions it is *impossible* to see Cuba from Key West. Is there anything to make us believe that Mr. Friedman's alleged "sight" of Cuba was under anything other than ordinary conditions? Absolutely not. It was a clear, sunny day he said. Thermal inversions tend to occur, to my knowledge, in places like Denver near the mountains, Los Angeles, near the mountains, and so forth. What are the chances for a thermal inversion near Cuba? I doubt it is very likely under a clear, sunny high-pressure system. I am perfectly willing to admit to things I do not know when evidence is presented of their relevance. I see nothing so far to merit such relevance or consideration. I have lived close to large bodies of water for much of my life. My direct personal experience is that all I, with 20-20 vision (which Mr. Friedman does *not* have) was able to see was the horizon. Period. Who knows, if one wants to count Mirages, bizarre atmospheric conditions and everything else as "evidence" then perhaps Mr. Friedman saw a hologram of Cuba projected by those awful Commies to instill mindnumbing fear in all Americans :-) tim sevener whuts!orb
jwm@stdc.jhuapl.edu (James W. Meritt) (03/22/88)
In article <3955@whuts.UUCP> orb@whuts.UUCP (45263-SEVENER,T.J.) writes: >Yes, there are atmospheric anomalies. >So what? "When you eliminate the impossible......." >How many of you have ever lived near a fairly large body of water? >Such as the Chesapeake Bay, any of the Great Lakes, or an Ocean >coast. Me. For a few decades. As well as spending (too) much time out in it. >Could you see the other side? Not of the Atlantic Ocean. Pacific is tough to see across, too. Most of the time I was below decks, in CIC, so I didn't spend a lot of time eyeballing. I did get a bunch (translation: a large number) of radar ranges at WAY past the horizon. Equally impossible without rafraction. Electromagnetic radiation and such. And I KNEW the ranges there, as well as the (expected) optical horizon. >How many of you have been to Key West? >Please tap your keyboards. Does in the water between the two count? If so, tap tap tap tap >How many of you could see anything besides the horizon? > >Right. >None. >Except the Reaganistas like Michael Friedman.... Gee. I'm impressed. I didn't know that the optic raytracing formula had a term for political leanings. Is it before or after the angle of incidence? >I have already proven that under ordinary conditions it >is *impossible* to see Cuba from Key West. To whom? "impossible" and "ordinary" in same statement? >Is there anything to make us believe that Mr. Friedman's >alleged "sight" of Cuba was under anything other than >ordinary conditions? Absolutely not. Or that the conditions were ordinary? I missed that, too. >It was a clear, sunny day he said. >Thermal inversions tend to occur, to my knowledge, in places like >Denver near the mountains, Los Angeles, near the mountains, >and so forth. Yes. and so forth. Like over water, perhaps? >What are the chances for a thermal inversion near Cuba? >I doubt it is very likely under a clear, sunny high-pressure >system. When was the atmospheric pressure reported? >I am perfectly willing to admit to things I do not know when >evidence is presented of their relevance. I see nothing >so far to merit such relevance or consideration. I have >lived close to large bodies of water for much of my life. >My direct personal experience is that all I, with 20-20 >vision (which Mr. Friedman does *not* have) was able to >see was the horizon. Period. 1. williingness to admit the unknown is a good sign. 2. excellent choice of words, "merit" ;~) 3. What is Friedman's corrected vision? I must have missed that.... 4. And how far away was this horizon, and how do you know? >Who knows, if one wants to count Mirages, bizarre atmospheric >conditions and everything else as "evidence" then perhaps >Mr. Friedman saw a hologram of Cuba projected by those >awful Commies to instill mindnumbing fear in all Americans :-) Evidence that the "ordinary" is not the absolute. Or even the average.... just a mode.... (hologram? Nah. Sun would wash it out. Nice attempt at diversion and political slamming on your part, though!) >tim sevener whuts!orb Disclaimer: Individuals have opinions, organizations have policy. Therefore, these opinions are mine and not any organizations! Q.E.D. jwm@aplvax.jhuapl.edu 128.244.65.5