keithr@tekecs.TEK.COM (Keith Rowell) (03/12/88)
Some words about one "pseudoscience" I know something about -- "ufology". I wrote this a while back in response to an article by Dale Worley, but didn't send it at the time. It looks like some of you guys need this, so I'll send it to you. Just substitute your name for Dale's. (Dale, hope you are still out there. Sorry I didn't post it in a more timely fashion.) Dale Worley said: >Now you're beginning to get it. Also, the Air Force has a giant >hanger in the southwest filled with wrecks of UFOs. Actually, you are pretty close to right about this one. The evidence has been building steadily in the past 10 years that the AF/CIA/DIA/NSA/intelligence community has been engaged in a coverup of the reality of crashed flying saucers and little gray (not green!) men. This began, as far as we (the serious ufo investigative community) can tell, in the summer of 1947 with the crash and recovery of a flying saucer and a small number of alien bodies near Roswell, New Mexico. Over the years a few other saucers have been recovered, apparently, but the evidence for this is somewhat less convincing. How do I "know" this? Well, I did nothing more than you can do with a lot of time and a little energy. These are the steps: 1. Adopt an attitude that this subject is crazy and bizarre to me right now, but let's see what a fair reading of the literature will yield. Do your best to suspend judgment until you have surveyed the majority of the literature written about the UFO. Unfortunately, in English alone, this amounts to well over a thousand titles, but don't despair just yet, you need read only about 30 or so to get an adequate picture of the situation. If you stop before this, you will not really have a good understanding of the field, though. 2. Select the largest public library near you, preferably with a collection exceeding 100,000 books, so that the librarians can select a reasonably representative sample of the books written about UFOs. (Avoid the academic library because the academics "know" in their hearts that anything published in the National Enquirer is ipso facto untrue, which statement, of course, is 98% true. And, of course, the book selection policies of an academic library represent the tastes of academics. Come back to the academic library after you have been through the public library books, though.) 3. In the library, you will find about 50 or more books about UFOs. Skim them ALL. Some will seem bizarre and far out and will be poorly written by undereducated, gullible people. Some will seem bizarre and far out but will be well written by PhD scientists or scholars with notes, bibliography, index, appendixes, etc., and published by Prentice-Hall, Putnam, Morrow, or Dutton. These will tell you in all seriousness about abductions, animal mutilations, CIA/military conspiracies, landings, alien beings, psychic experiences occurring during and after UFO contact, etc. Yet others will be well written by authors with a skeptical bent. But, regardless of where you start and what you think about the ideas presented, persevere and READ THE WHOLE COLLECTION. 4. You will find that the bulk of the books fall into the bizarre stuff reasonably well-written by scholars, scientists, and independent investigators category . The next largest category is the mostly gullible, religiously-oriented authors who are most concerned with the "message" that the "saucer people" bring. The smallest category is the hard-core skeptics, who are bound and determined that UFOs (=flying saucers) never were, aren't now, and never will be. If you stop in your reading too soon or your "true spiritual home" is *hard-core skepticism*, you will be left with the impression that the hard-core skeptics are probably to certainly right. But... 5. If you do read (or seriously skim) the entire 50 or so books, you will be left with a profoundly disquieting feeling. Something is going on that Time, Newsweek, the Washington Post, ABC, NBC, the U.S. Government, Science, the Scientific American, etc., are not quite coming across with. (Actually, ABC, NBC, and the US Congress has done some reasonably unbiased stuff in the past.) If the major category of UFO books, those by the UFO investigative community, is right, then the National Enquirer is half right and the Scientific American is all wrong. This is not the way the world is supposed to work! The scientific/scholarly establishment is supposed to be the place we turn to for the truth about things. What is going on!!?? 6. At this point, if you still have the time and interest, you will turn to exploring the various ragsheets published by the likes of MUFON (Mutual UFO Network), CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies), FUFOR (Fund for UFO Research), CSICOP (Committee to Scientifically Investigate Claims of the Paranormal), the Fortean Society, etc. After reading these ragsheets for a while, you will probably want to actually talk to people doing weekly on-going field investigation into UFOs and similar phenomena. You may even become involved in serious research or investigation yourself. My opinion is that short of independent investigation or research conducted by you, or people you know first hand, you have very little handle on what the truth about a *CONTROVERSIAL* subject is. > The Army is in >charge of quietly tracking down all the yetis, I haven't come across anything like this in the bigfoot (=yeti) literature, have you? Of course you haven't. You haven't read the literature, have you? I would guess this amounts to 50 or so books in English at this time. > and the Navy/Coast >Guard has one hell of a time fudging the records so that all those >ship disappearances in the Bermuda triangle seem to have happened >elsewhere. There is a good book about the Bermuda Triangle by Larry Kusche (sp?) called The Bermuda Triangle Solved, I believe. Larry says that there is no mystery about the Triangle, and I am inclined to believe he is right. > And the subtle but clever conspiracy of book publishers, >newspapers, and schools to suppress knowledge of astrology, auras, and >psychic healing/surgery (the AMA is in on that one, also). The only >accurate information that leaks out is in the National Enquirer As I said above, National Enquirer stories about UFOs are about half right. When a story is about a specific UFO event the facts are sometimes reasonably accurate. I once checked out a National Enquirer write up with the later version in a CUFOS publication. You could definitely tell that they were both talking about the same incident. But the speculative stories about UFOs are invented in the National Enquirer "newsroom". >, so >they started up the Weekly World News to smokescreen it with stuff >that *sounds* like the N.E., but is really invented to sound so >outlandish that no one will take the N.E. seriously. It's amazing how >much effort the current sexist/war-mongering elite will go to in order >to maintain its dominance... Dale, I challenge you in front of the net public to "put up or shut up". These opinions of yours are pretty gratuitous. I know without a doubt that you have not surveyed the UFO literature because anyone who had done that would not write what you have -- unless you are a fanatic skeptic like Phillip Klass, Robert Sheaffer, and other card-carrying members of CSICOP. Are you one of those, Dale? Actually, it sounds like you occasionally dip into the Skeptical Inquirer, CSICOP's ragsheet, for your opinions about things paranormal. Are you just another CSICOP groupie? Or have you actually read or even surveyed the literature about UFOs, bigfoot, animal mutilations, etc? As I indicated above, you have a big surprise in store for you if you do what any honest, unbiased reporter, scholar, or scientist does before he/she commits him/herself to opinion. I expect you to reply to the net with specifics about what you have read, who you have talked to, what independent research you have done, etc., to arrive at your opinions on UFOs, yetis, and the Bermuda Triangle. Here's what I have done on the UFO: I have read over 100 books: pro, con, and gullible. I have skimmed an extra couple of hundred books. I have read and surveyed most of the UFO articles and opinion pieces in the mainstream press -- Time, New York Times, Science, etc. I have read 100s of issues of UFO magazines, including issues of the Skeptical Inquirer. I have corresponded with and talked to a number of UFO field investigators, though I don't do field investigation myself. I have attended a number of UFO talks and listened to a much greater number of broadcast talks on radio and TV about the UFO. Tell us what you have done, Dale, so that we can evaluate the basis of your opinions. As a help to get you started, I have appended a classified UFO bibliography so you won't be ignorant any longer about UFOs. We expect you to make periodic six month reports on how you are progressing through the literature on the way to a mature and informed opinion about UFOs. No fair just reading Klass, Sheaffer, and the Skeptical Inquirer, now -- that would be cheating, wouldn't it? You do understand, I hope, that they present only the ultra-skeptical side of things, right? You really do want to be fair, honest, and as unbiased as possible, don't you? (Actually, the UFO and paranormal stuff opinion that appears in the Scientific American, New Scientist, and Science New Weekly (right title?), but not Science Digest, is written or directly influenced -- old boy network -- by card carrying CSICOP members. You innocent engineer and scientist types are even encouraged to subscribe to CSICOP's Skeptical Inquirer by the likes of Stan Kelly-Bootle in his Devil's Advocate column in the *Unix Review* -- a recent issue. Poor Kelly-Bootle finds that many computer programmers are deep into the occult and "pseudoscience", which he finds disturbing. Has Kelly-Bootle read the UFO literature? Of course not. Does he have an instant opinion about UFOs? Of course. He has borrowed it from Phillip Klass -- straight from the pages of the Inquirer. Kelly-Bootle -- another dupe of the fanatic skeptics. Do I need to say it again? There aren't any shortcuts to intelligent opinions about controversial subjects. Dale, ask me about the Majestic 12 Briefing document that was released to the public in a news conference sponsored by MUFON this summer in Washington, D.C. If this document is authentic, and at this time that is still being mooted in the UFO investigative community itself, the UFO (= flying saucer) is real and lots of the public and educated elite will have a lot of world view modifying to do real quickly. Stayed tuned for an announcement from the establishment press within the next five years or so -- it has taken a long time to break through the wall of secrecy erected by the U.S. intelligence establishment, but major chinks are appearing each year now. Keith Rowell Representative UFO Bibliography The authors are classified for your convenience: UFO skeptics: Condon, Sheaffer, Klass, Kagan, Menzel, Sagan UFO proponents (investigators): Moore, Bowen, Druffel, Evans, Fawcett, Fowler, Haines, Hendry, Hopkins, Hynek, Jacobs, Keyhoe, Lorenzen, Maney, McCambell, Randles, Rasmussen, Rimmer, Salisbury, Saunders, Story, Stringfield, Vallee, Hobana Journalist types: Barry, Berlitz, Donovan, Fuller, Heard, Scully, Keel, Sachs UFO contactees or fanatics: National Enquirer, Barker, Cathie, Mathes, Stanford, Stevens, Walton, Williamson Intellectual: Jung Some interesting things to note are 1) The skeptics' books -- almost to a man -- do not have a formal bibliography, though they do cite sources in notes. People who are interested in promoting further study include bibliographies. Some skeptics' books do not even have indexes. 2) Proponents' books taken together are not as well written as skeptics' books, though this is changing as more academics get interesting in the UFO. 3) More women by far are interested in solving the puzzle of the UFO than in debunking a phenomenon assumed to be highly improbable or impossible. 4) Contactees' books tend to be published by very small publishers or even self-published, are poorly written, and have only the semblance of scholarly apparatus and usually none. 5) Lately, skeptics books are published by their own publishing house, Prometheus Books. The "best" books to read are by Klass, Hynek, Vallee, Fawcett, and Hopkins. Klass is the archskeptic. He is fairly detailed in his analysis of cases, but I have come to believe that he omits or distorts some of the "facts". But, to be sure, deciding exactly what the facts are in a UFO case turns out to be very difficult. Klass is mainly useful for the additional information he gives about the UFO investigative community rather than for his analysis of UFO cases. Sheaffer is good this way, too. Hynek (recently deceased, unfortunately) was retained by the AF for its (we now know) public-relations-oriented investigation of UFOs called Project Bluebook. He became convinced over ten years time that something strange WAS going on. The last 20 years of his life were devoted to gaining scientific acceptance for serious UFO study. He made lots of progress but we are not there yet. Hynek is conservative in his books, much less so in the private UFO literature. Vallee is a French born and educated astronomer who became interested in the French UFO waves in the 1950s. He was the first to seriously compare fairy lore with modern UFO occupant reports. He also brought out the sociological aspects of the UFO phenomenon in later books. Fawcett investigates the CIA/UFO connection and uses the FOIA to release (by now over 10,000 pages of) formerly classified UFO documents. These have given him further leads and corroborated UFO reports from other sources. Some of the "good stuff" has now apparently been leaked in the form of the Majestic 12 Briefing paper. This along with other documents confirms suspicions that UFO investigators had in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, so we assume that the crashed flying saucers and bodies on ice will also be confirmed. If the Majestic 12 document turns out to be genuine, the job of the private UFO investigator will be over. Proof of the existence of the flying saucer will be a fait accompli. I support CAUS -- Citizens Against UFO Secrecy -- Fawcett's organization. Hopkins is a NYC artist who started investigating UFO reports less than 10 years ago -- a real newcomer! He has specialized in the UFO abduction aspect of the phenomenon. Fowler's and Druffel's books along these lines are definitely worth reading too. The April 5, 1987 issue of the NY Times Book Review, page 37, has a review of Hopkins' latest book, Intruders. This is yet another bizarre book that is reliable and well-written. Reports in the 60s and 70s out of South America talked about sex with the aliens. This was greeted here with some skepticism among the UFO investigators, but once again the truly bizarre forces its way into serious "ufology". ---------. National Enquirer UFO Report. New York: Pocket Books, 1985. 221pp. ISBN 0-671-54250-8 Barker, Gray. They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers. New York: University Books, 1956. 256pp. ISBN 56-7830 Barry, Bill. Ultimate Encounter: The True Story of a UFO Kidnapping. New York: Pocket Books, 1978. 205pp. ISBN 0-671-82079-6 Berlitz, Charles and William L. Moore. The Roswell Incident. New York: Grosset & Dunlap, 1980. 168pp. ISBN 0-448-21199-8 Bowen, Charles, ed. The Humanoids. Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969. 256pp. ISBN 77-126142 Cathie, Bruce L. and Peter N. Temm. UFOs and Anti-Gravity. San Francisco: Strawberry Hill Press/ A Walnut Hill Book, 1971. 201pp. ISBN 0-89407-011-8 Condon, Edward U. and Daniel S. Gillmor (ed.). Final Report of the Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects (Conducted by the University of Colorado Under Contract to the United States Air Force. New York: Bantam Books, 1968. 965pp. ISBN Donovan, Roberta and Keith Wolverton. Mystery Stalks the Prairie. Raynesford, MT: T.H.A.R. Institute, 1976. 108pp. ISBN Druffel, Ann and D. Scott Rogo. The Tujunga Canyon Contacts. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1980. 264pp. ISBN 0-13-932541-7 Evans, Hilary. Visions, Apparitions, Alien Visitors. Wellingborough, G. B.: The Aquarian Press, 1984. 318pp. ISBN 0-85030-414-8 Fawcett, Lawrence and Barry J. Greenwood. Clear Intent: The Government Coverup of the UFO Experiencee. Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, 1984. 259pp. ISBN 0-13-136656-4 Fowler, Raymond E. Casebook of a UFO Investigator: A Personal Memoir. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1981. 246pp. ISBN 0-13-117432-0 Fowler, Raymond E. The Andreasson Affair. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1979. 239pp. ISBN 0-13-036608-0 Fowler, Raymond E. The Andreasson Affair, Phase Two. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1982. 278pp. ISBN 0-13-036616-1 Fowler, Raymond E. UFOs: Interplanetary Visitors (A UFO Investigator Reports on the Facts, Fables, and Fantasies of the Flying Saucers Conspiracy. Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, 1974. 365pp. ISBN 0-13-935569-3 pbk Fuller, Curtis G., ed. Proceedings of the First International UFO Congress. New York: Warner Books, 1980. 440pp. ISBN Fuller, John G. Aliens in the Skies: The Scientific Rebuttal to the Condon Committee Report. New York: G. P. Putnam, 1969. 219pp. ISBN Haines, Richard F. Observing UFOs: An Investigative Handbook. Chicago: Nelson-Hall, 1980. 300pp. ISBN 0-88229-540-3 Haines, Richard F., ed. UFO Phenomena and the Behavioral Scientist. Metuchen, N.J.: The Scarecrow Press, 1979. 450pp. ISBN 0-8108-1228-2 Heard, Gerald. The Riddle of the Flying Saucers: Is Another World Watching?. London: Carroll & Nicholson, 1950. 157pp. ISBN Hendry, Allan. The UFO Handbook: A Guide to Investigating, Evaluating, and Reporting UFO Sightings. Garden City, NY: Doubleday (Dolphin), 1979. 297pp. ISBN 0-385-14348-6 Hobana, Ion and Julien Weverbergh. UFO's From Behind the Iron Curtain. New York: Bantam, 1975. 305pp. ISBN Hopkins, Budd. Missing Time: A Documented Study of UFO Abductions. New York: Richard Marek, 1981. 258pp. ISBN 0-399-90102-7 Hynek, J. Allen. The Hynek UFO Report. New York: Dell, 1977. 297pp. ISBN 0-440-19201-3 Hynek, J. Allen. The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry. New York: Ballantine Books, 1972. 309pp. ISBN 345-23953-9-150 Jacobs, David Michael. The UFO Controversy in America. Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press, 1975. 362pp. ISBN 0-253-19006-1 Jung, Carl G. Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies. New York: New American Library (Signet), 1969. 144pp. ISBN 59-11766 Kagan, Daniel and Ian Summers. Mute Evidence. New York: Bantam Books, 1983. 504pp. ISBN 0-522-23318-1 Keel, John A. The Mothman Prophecies. New York: E. P. Dutton (Saturday Review Press), 1975. 269pp. ISBN 0-8415-0355-9 Keyhoe, Donald E. Aliens from Space: The Real Story of Unidentified Flying Objects. Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1973. 322pp. ISBN Keyhoe, Donald E. The Flying Saucer Conspiracy. New York: Henry Holt, 1955. 315pp. ISBN 55-7918 Klass, Phillip J. UFOs -- Identified. New York: Random House, 1968. 290pp. ISBN 67-22622 Klass, Phillip J. UFOs Explained. New York: Random House (Vintage Books), 1976. 438pp. ISBN 0-394-72106-3 Klass, Phillip J. UFOs: The Public Deceived. Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Press, 1983. 310pp. ISBN 0-87975-201-4 Lorenzen, Coral E. The Great Flying Saucer Hoax: The UFO Facts and Their Interpretation. New York: William-Frederick Press, 1962. 257pp. ISBN 62-10876 Maney, Charles A. and Richard Hall. The Challenge of Unidentified Flying Objects. Washington, D. C.: NICAP, 1961. 208pp. ISBN Mathes, J. H. and Lenora Huett. The Amnesia Factor. Millbrae, CA: Celestial Arts, 1975. 169pp. ISBN 0-89087-023-3 McCambell, James M. UFOLOGY: A Major Breakthrough in the Scientific Understanding of Unidentified Flying Objects. Millbrae, CA: Celestial Arts, 1976. 184pp. ISBN 0-89087-144-2 Menzel, Donald H. Flying Saucers. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1953. 319pp. ISBN 52-12419 Menzel, Donald H. and Lyle G. Boyd. The World of Flying Saucers: A Scientific Examination of a Major Myth of the Space Age. New York: Doubleday, 1963. 302pp. ISBN Randles, Jenny and Peter Warrington. Science and the UFOs. Oxford, U.K.: Basil Blackwell, 1985. 215pp. ISBN 0-631-13563-4 Rasmussen, Richard Michael. The UFO Literature: A Comprehensive Annotated Bibliography of Works in English. Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company, 1985. 263pp. ISBN 0-89950-136-2 Rimmer, John. The Evidence for Alien Abductions. Wellingborough, G. B.: The Aquarian Press, 1984. 160pp. ISBN 0-85030-362-1 Sachs, Margaret. The UFO Encyclopedia. New York: Putnam (A Perigee Book), 1980. 408pp. ISBN 399-50454-0 pbk Sagan, Carl and Thorton Page, eds. UFO's -- A Scientific Debate. New York: Norton, 1972. 310pp. ISBN 0-393-00739-1 Salisbury, Frank B. The Utah UFO Display: A Biologist's Report. Old Greenwich, CN: Devin-Adair, 1974. 286pp. ISBN 0-8159-7000-5 Saunders, David R. and R. Roger Harkins. UFOs? Yes! Where the Condon Committee Went Wrong. New York: New American Library (Signet), 1968. 256pp. ISBN 68-59202 Scully, Frank. Behind the Flying Saucers. New York: Henry Holt, 1950. 230pp. ISBN Sheaffer, Robert. The UFO Verdict: Examining the Evidence. Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 1981. 242pp. ISBN 0-87975-146-0 Stanford, Ray. Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry. Austin, TX: Blueapple Books, 1976. 211pp. ISBN 0-917092-00-7 Stevens, Wendelle C. UFO...Contact From the Pleiades: A Preliminary Investigation Report (The Report of an Ongoing Contact). Tucson, AZ: Wendelle C. Stevens, 1982. 542pp. ISBN 0-9608558-2-3 Story, Ronald D. UFOs and the Limits of Science. New York: William Morrow, 1981. 290pp. ISBN 0-688-00144-0 Story, Ronald, ed. The Encyclopedia of UFOs. Garden City, NY: Doubleday (Dolphin Books), 1980. 440pp. ISBN 0-385-11681-0 Stringfield, Leonard H. Situation Red: The UFO Siege!. New York: Fawcett-Crest Books, 1977. 254pp. ISBN 0-449-23654-4 Vallee, Jacques. Anatomy of a Phenomenon: Unidentified Objects in Space -- A Scientific Appraisal. New York: Ballantine Books, 1974. 227pp. ISBN 345-24287-4-150 Vallee, Jacques. Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers. Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969. 372pp. ISBN 0-8092-8330-1 Vallee, Jacques. The Invisible College: What a Group of Scientists Has Discovered About UFO Influences on the Human Race. New York: E. P. Dutton, 1975. 216pp. ISBN 0-525-13470-0 Walton, Travis. The Walton Experience. New York: Berkley Publishing, 1978. 181pp. ISBN 425-03675-8 Williamson, George Hunt. The Saucers Speak: A Documentary Report of Interstellar Communication by Radiotelegraphy. London: Neville Spearman, 1963. 160pp. ISBN -- -Keith Rowell, Tektronix, Wilsonville, OR keithr@tekecs.TEK.COM {ucbvax,decvax,uw-beaver,hplabs,ihnp4,allegra}!tektronix!tekecs!keithr
jesup@pawl14.pawl.rpi.edu (Randell E. Jesup) (03/12/88)
A bibliography does not truth make.
Has no one ever heard of Occam's Razor? Statements like (paraphrased)
"they released lots of UFO documents that were de-classified" (probably
Air force blue book stuff, classified more or less by default back then)
"therefor we'll probably soon see the existence of alien bodies on ice
confirmed" sound an awful lot like believing truth is what one wants it to
be. It sounds like you've made up your mind (at least subconciously) that
UFOs exist, and you're searching desperately for things to back up your
beliefs (so you can justify them to yourself). You are a lot less fanatic
in your suspension of disbelief than most such I have encountered. You don't
seem to be saying "well, there are some unexplained things, and a few of those
might be caused by UFOs, so I'll see what evidence (EITHER way) I can find";
you are saying "well, the skeptics can't find reasons for everything that
is unexplained, so they must be wrong, and UFO's/whatever MUST exist, so I'll
prove it".
You don't approach investigation from a objective point of view, you go into
hoping that this time, you'll find proof (and all your toil and trouble will
not have been wasted).
Oh well, I'm sure I can't change your mind.
// Randell Jesup Lunge Software Development
// Dedicated Amiga Programmer 13 Frear Ave, Troy, NY 12180
\\// beowulf!lunge!jesup@steinmetz.UUCP (518) 272-2942
\/ (uunet!steinmetz!beowulf!lunge!jesup) BIX: rjesup
(-: The Few, The Proud, The Architects of the RPM40 40MIPS CMOS Micro :-)todd@uop.edu (Dr. Nethack) (03/13/88)
There is a big difference between ufo remnants, and such.
And the psuedo-science/half-baked religion of worshiping aliens.
The evidence is one thing, interpretation of it's meaning is another.
DON'T CONFUSE THE TWO!!
Yes I have read the Majestic 12 documents
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+ uop!todd@uunet.uu.net +
+ cogent!uop!todd@lll-winken.arpa +
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------govett@avsd.UUCP (David Govett) (03/15/88)
> A bibliography does not truth make. > > Has no one ever heard of Occam's Razor? Statements like (paraphrased) > "they released lots of UFO documents that were de-classified" (probably > Air force blue book stuff, classified more or less by default back then) > "therefor we'll probably soon see the existence of alien bodies on ice > confirmed" sound an awful lot like believing truth is what one wants it to > be. It sounds like you've made up your mind (at least subconciously) that > UFOs exist, and you're searching desperately for things to back up your > beliefs (so you can justify them to yourself). You are a lot less fanatic > in your suspension of disbelief than most such I have encountered. You don't > seem to be saying "well, there are some unexplained things, and a few of those > might be caused by UFOs, so I'll see what evidence (EITHER way) I can find"; > you are saying "well, the skeptics can't find reasons for everything that > is unexplained, so they must be wrong, and UFO's/whatever MUST exist, so I'll > prove it". > > You don't approach investigation from a objective point of view, you go into > hoping that this time, you'll find proof (and all your toil and trouble will > not have been wasted). > How does one prove that something does not exist? .
jwm@stdc.jhuapl.edu (James W. Meritt) (03/15/88)
I have no problem with the existance of "ufo"s i.e. unidentified flying
objects. There obviously are flying objects which are not identified.
I have a problem with non-human time/space craft visiting earth. Not
that it has/is/could happen, but that the reports (?) make out like
we are in the grand central station of the galaxy. That is what I
find somewhat difficult to believe. The distances involved should
preclude the "intense" interest displayed. We are WAY out in the
boonies.
If we are the only (or almost only) intelligence (also hard to believe)
all these sightings would not be real, 'cause nobody there / close enough
to do it.
If there are lots of "others" (I find that reasonable) they shouldn't
be here - there are many closer interesting places / other intelligences
to observe / whatever ...
If it is something in the middle (they are there, but not many) I find it
statistically unlikely that "they" are next door, and just advanced
enough to have recognizable spacecraft, yet the economic base to make
a bunch of different models and send them all here.
Based on these conditionals, I have the opinion that these things,
whatever they are, are probably not starcraft from other worlds.
Now, what NASA, CCCP, ... are doing....
Disclaimer: Individuals have opinions, organizations have policy.
Therefore, these opinions are mine and not any organizations!
Q.E.D.
jwm@aplvax.jhuapl.edu 128.244.65.5hdunne@amethyst.ma.arizona.edu (|-|ugh) (03/14/99)
In article <9825@tekecs.TEK.COM> keithr@tekecs.TEK.COM (Keith Rowell) writes: }>Now you're beginning to get it. Also, the Air Force has a giant }>hanger in the southwest filled with wrecks of UFOs. } }Actually, you are pretty close to right about this one. The evidence has }been building steadily in the past 10 years that the }AF/CIA/DIA/NSA/intelligence community has been engaged in a coverup of the }reality of crashed flying saucers and little gray (not green!) men. This }began, as far as we (the serious ufo investigative community) can tell, in }the summer of 1947 with the crash and recovery of a flying saucer and a }small number of alien bodies near Roswell, New Mexico. Over the years }a few other saucers have been recovered, apparently, but the evidence }for this is somewhat less convincing. "The Roswell Incident" and "Operation Majestic-12" (an alleged top-secret US project to examine crashed saucers) have recently been discussed in the skeptics mailing list. Some "official documents" which ufo researches supposedly obtained from anonymous sources have recently been published, but these documents seem to be forgeries. For more information, write to skeptics-request@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA and ask for back issues on this topic. Hugh Dunne | UUCP: ..{cmcl2,ihnp4,seismo!noao}!arizona!amethyst!hdunne Dept. of Math. | Phone: | ARPA: hdunne@amethyst.ma.arizona.edu Univ. of Arizona | +1 602 621 4766 | Bitnet: hdunne@arizrvax Tucson AZ 85721 | +1 602 621 6893 | Internet: hdunne@rvax.ccit.arizona.edu