wildbill@ucbvax.UUCP (William J. Laubenheimer) (04/14/84)
Better watch yourself with that stock market gimmick. I remember reading
an SF story where a wealthy individual had amassed considerable
assets in the market. He had visions of another crash upcoming, so he
borrowed a time machine which a mad-scientist relative of his had
just recently invented and jumped several years into the future to
find out when it was. Upon consulting the newspapers in the local
library, he fouind out the big crash was the day after he left, so
he dashed back and told his broker to sell everything. The next day,
the headlines were exactly the same as he remembered, but the fine
print (which he hadn't bothered to read in the library) revealed that
the major cause was \\his own sellout//. He promptly became the target
of a rather large lynch mob composed of people who had lost their
shirts in the collapse.
Another story along slightly different lines (I think this one is by
Fredric Brown) concerns the inventor who builds a time machine and
then tries to figure out how to get rich with it when one has virtually
no money, only to find out that there is a Time Police with the
duty of ensuring that no illegal activities are committed with time
machines. He eventually gets shut down permanently -- quite funny.
Bill Laubenheimer
----------------------------------------UC-Berkeley Computer Science
...Killjoy WAS here! ucbvax!wildbillPF@MIT-XX.ARPA (04/19/84)
From: Paul Fuqua <PF@MIT-XX.ARPA>
I recall a story that involved a man who had in some unspecified way
made contact with himself 2 days in the past and 2 days in the future. By
maintaining this contact over a long period, he made a comfortable living
through the same modest investments someone else suggested.
Another story involved some mysterious gentleman who appeared in the
1400s and invested some semi-trivial amount, which grew via compound interest
and prudent manipulations until it included most of the property in Europe.
The use to which this massive fortune was put? Paying for the resources
necessary to time-jump back to the 1400s....
pflmc@denelcor.UUCP (Lyle McElhaney) (04/27/84)
While not strictly a time travel story, I can remember reading a short about a man who placed $1 in the bank to accumulate interest payable to his descendant in the fiftieth generation. By the time that the it became payable, it represented all the assets in Earth, Vanus, and Mars. The 49th generation person died without issue, and so the world goal of Communism (which was by this time long quashed) became reality when the government took default. Was it in Mathematical Magpie, maybe??? Hmmmm.... -- Lyle McElhaney (hao,brl-bmd,nbires,csu-cs,scgvaxd)!denelcor!lmc
jensenj@stolaf.UUCP (Joel A. Jensen) (04/29/84)
Thank due to Will Martin for opening up this interesting topic, How to Get Rich With a Time Machine. Here are my thoughts: 1) I would play off of the idea that, at certain points throughout History, there have been situations in which a great many people would gladly have paid a dear sum for what, to others, may seem mundane and ordinary. The problem is that the Clock Broker (our agent we use to make us rich) cannot change History appreciably. Therefore, trading modern technology (Sony Betamaxes and Walkmans) to lesser developed cultures is right out. Are there periods in History when mundane, ordinary objects commanded a high price? Sure! What about the California Gold Rush of 1849? Such ordinary things as pickaxes, shovels, lodging and food were sold at ridiculously exorbitant prices and they were paid for in gold, a sure commodity all through the ages. Developing a pipeline from a modern day hardware store to 19th century California is as simple as turning a few knobs. And what about water? Haven't there been literally thousands of situations in which people would pay anything for a glass of water? (No, I haven't seen Ice Pirates yet.) 2) My second thought concerns mankind's tendency to make war. At those times men will pay dearly for supplies, ammunition, etc. It seems to me that, as long as the time traveler knows in advance who is to win what battle and why that he can indulge in a little black marketeering without affecting his own future. As an example, take Patton near the end of the European conflict in WWII. His push northward into Germany was halted due to a lack of fuel. Since, in an historical sense, the Allies were destined to win anyway, it may not have made a great deal of difference who reached Berlin first. Patton would have liked to do it himself and I'm sure, if offered the fuel from somewhere, he would have paid enough for it to make it worth one's while. Those are my thoughts for now. Lets open this topic up and have some serious discussions about it! Joel Jensen today, tomorrow, and forever ihnp4!stolaf1jensenj
scw@cepu.UUCP (05/02/84)
>1) I would play off of the idea that, at certain points throughout >History, there have been situations in which a great many >people would gladly have paid a dear sum for what, to others, >may seem mundane and ordinary.[ ... ] literally >thousands of situations in which people would pay anything >for a glass of water? (No, I haven't seen Ice Pirates yet.) This would work fairly well. >2) My second thought concerns mankind's tendency to make war. >At those times men [...] black marketeering without affecting >his own future. >As an example, take Patton near the end of the European conflict >in WWII. His push northward into Germany was halted due to a >lack of fuel. Since, in an historical sense, the Allies were >destined to win anyway, it may not have made a great deal of >difference who reached Berlin first. Patton would have liked >to do it himself and I'm sure, if offered the fuel from somewhere, >he would have paid enough for it to make it worth one's while. The problem here is twofold. (1) George Patton was not an extreamly wealthy man. and (2) Do you have any idea how much fuel Patton's IIIrd Army used? It took a whole bunch of trucks (1000's) running ~24 hours a day to keep him supplied. Also you'd be substantally changing local (time wise) history. If Patton had reached Berlin first a whole lot of things would be different. (1) Berlin would not have been flatend nearly as throughly as it was (the Soviets delibertly caused as much extra damage as they could). This would have far reaching effects in the attitude of the DDR. (2) Dresden probably would not have been bombed. (3) The Warsaw Getto uprising probably would have been succsfull (the Soviets would not have sat on their asses across the river, and the German Army would have had more of its forces on the western front [80% of the German Army was on the Eastern front]). -- Stephen C. Woods (VA Wadsworth Med Ctr./UCLA Dept. of Neurology) uucp: { {ihnp4, uiucdcs}!bradley, hao, trwrb, sdcsvax!bmcg}!cepu!scw ARPA: cepu!scw@ucla-locus location: N 34 06'37" W 118 25'43"
wbpesch@ihuxp.UUCP (Walt Pesch) (05/04/84)
I think that I might just go back to the method used in I Dream fo Jeanie, where she goes to the track with her master with tomorrow's results. STILL waiting for the bolt from the skies, Walt Pesch AT&T Technologies ihnp4!ihuxp!wbpesch
richard@dartvax.UUCP (Richard A. Brown) (05/04/84)
Problems with your second point. It's not who wins, but who dies. If Patton had been given his fuel, then more german's would have died. All of whom have affected our present. Not only that, if the war had ended sooner, perhaps the Allies would have made it to Berlin first. Time travell is confusing, as every voyage back in time, creates another alternate reality, another alternate universe. Which one you return to when you go back to your time, no one can say...
crigney@uok.UUCP (05/07/84)
#R:sri-arpa:-1250900:uok:7600008:000:2249
uok!crigney May 7 00:24:00 1984
/***** uok:net.sf-lovers / stolaf!jensenj / 12:50 pm Apr 29, 1984 */
As an example, take Patton near the end of the European conflict
in WWII. His push northward into Germany was halted due to a
lack of fuel. Since, in an historical sense, the Allies were
destined to win anyway, it may not have made a great deal of
difference who reached Berlin first. Patton would have liked
to do it himself and I'm sure, if offered the fuel from somewhere,
he would have paid enough for it to make it worth one's while.
/* ---------- */
Joel has some good ideas, but I must disagree with this one.
What would Patton pay for the fuel with? And massive quantities
of fuel are required; I can't believe you could operate on that
kind of a scale without someone getting curious ("You want 5000
gallons of Petrol delivered to your home?" "Say, George, how are
you moving along when we're not allocating you any fuel?" "Sure
this is a military surplus shop, but we just don't carry 105mm
shells. What do ya want them for, anyway?" all spring to mind.
Of course, you could always steal it from someone else's supply
dump; but for that matter you could materialize inside a major
bank's vault and make off with their cash or gold - preferably
just before a major fire or disaster.)
Had Patton reached Berlin ahead of the Russians, the world could
be incredibly different - Germany would not have been
partitioned, and a united Germany on the western side would make
a major difference in the current European Balance.
Finding people who need a drink of water would be difficult, too.
And how much money are they likely to have on them? (Or you
could let them die of thirst and *take* their money.)
The gold rush merchandising sounds good, but why not look up the
sites of the richest strikes, and then sell the information for a
half-share? Then just have it deposited in some stable bank or
company stock, and return to your present to enjoy the results.
Ambushing a gold-laden Spanish expedition returning from the new
world would be profitable, but would require an extensive outlay
for the weapons and men to pull it off. And is immoral besides,
for those who care about such matters.
Carl
..!ctvax!uokvax!uok!crigney
..!duke!uok!crigneylmc@denelcor.UUCP (Lyle McElhaney) (05/14/84)
The major point here is, does changing the time when the Americans
reached Berlin first have a bearing on future events? I do not
remember when the Berlin Wall was built, but it most probably was a
consequence of Russia's occupation of Poland and East Germany. Had
we reached there first, we could have avoided the building of the
wall, and possibly the Cold War might not have come to pass. But the
ramifcations of that are unknowable. It may be that war might have
broken out between Russia and the U.S. for influence of Poland and
East Germany.
Indeed it was a consequence, but somewhat more remote than appears to be
believed in the discussion. Russia's occupation of Poland and East Germany
bacame recognized, of couse, at the close of WWII, in 1945. Berlin was
partitioned at that time, to Russia's disgust, since it was buried deep
in "their" territory. The cold war really began shortly after WWI ended;
only our refusal to enter WWII until after Hitler attacked its ally Russia
kept us from a hot war with Russia in the meantime. The "wall of shame"
was erected by the East Germans in August of 1961, in response to the 1000
emigrants per day leaving East Germany via West Berlin.
The cold war was in the cards; Berlin was only the convenient site for
the confrontation. Microhistory would have been changed if all of Berlin
and Germeny had been liberated by the western powers in 1945 - the effect
on the long run of history is much less certain.
Sorry about a dry history lesson in these surroundings, but if history isn't
clear, how can you (or I) tell it from an alternate reality? :-) It's
also far from the original subject, but who cares?
--
Lyle McElhaney
(hao,brl-bmd,nbires,csu-cs,scgvaxd)!denelcor!lmcgds@mit-eddie.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (05/16/84)
>2) My second thought concerns mankind's tendency to make war. >At those times men [...] black marketeering without affecting >his own future. >As an example, take Patton near the end of the European conflict >in WWII. His push northward into Germany was halted due to a >lack of fuel. Since, in an historical sense, the Allies were >destined to win anyway, it may not have made a great deal of >difference who reached Berlin first. Patton would have liked >to do it himself and I'm sure, if offered the fuel from somewhere, >he would have paid enough for it to make it worth one's while. >The problem here is twofold. (1) George Patton was not an extreamly >wealthy man. and (2) Do you have any idea how much fuel Patton's IIIrd >Army used? It tookfornia 92152 The major point here is, does changing the time when the Americans reached Berlin first have a bearing on future events? I do not remember when the Berlin Wall was built, but it most probably was a consequence of Russia's occupation of Poland and East Germany. Had we reached there first, we could have avoided the building of the wall, and possibly the Cold War might not have come to pass. But the ramifcations of that are unknowable. It may be that war might have broken out between Russia and the U.S. for influence of Poland and East Germany. (This is outside of net.sf-lovers, so I think I'll quit here. Flame away!!) -- Be ye moby, for I am moby. Greg Skinner (gregbo) {decvax!genrad, eagle!mit-vax, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds You can't trust anyone around here with the su password these days.
rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (05/17/84)
What about buying the newspaper from the day after the $20,000,000 lottery numbers are drawn by leaping into the future and leaping back to buy the ticket? How do we know this hasn't been done? -- Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME... Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
gds@mit-eddie.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (05/20/84)
> What about buying the newspaper from the day after the $20,000,000 > lottery numbers are drawn by leaping into the future and leaping back > to buy the ticket? How do we know this hasn't been done? Won't work unless you can jump to the exact spot where the winning ticket is. That requires clairvoyance. Time machines don't give away all the answers ... -- Be ye moby, for I am moby. Greg Skinner (gregbo) {decvax!genrad, eagle!mit-vax, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds Joy is in the ears that hear.
markv@dartvax.UUCP (Mark Vita) (05/22/84)
<> >Won't work unless you can jump to the exact spot where the winning >ticket is. That requires clairvoyance. Time machines don't give away >all the answers ... Not all state lotteries work like that, however. In Massachusetts (and therefore at MIT!) you simply pick a series of numbers. The drawing is done by generating a sequence of numbers. The jackpot is divided between all who have matching numbers. Sometimes it's no one, sometimes it's four or five people. (If you have two identical tickets, you get two shares! This happened to some lucky fool a few weeks ago who accidently bought two of the same ticket.) So, the method of buying that paper and going back in time would work, if you were playing Megabucks (the aforementioned lottery game.) -- Mark Vita Dartmouth College {decvax,cornell,linus}!dartvax!markv