jpg3196@tahoma.UUCP (James P. Galasyn) (07/19/89)
In article <2729@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>, pedro@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: > You see, the chances of detection will strongly depend on the method of > observation. In most cases we are far from having the appropriate tech- > nology, but in other cases we are pretty close. [stuff on detecting terrestrial planets around other stars deleted] > * by contacting people in those planets. Self-explanatory. Off-the-wall observation here, which probably belongs in talk.religion.newage: the Dogon tribe, among others in Africa, have rather precise astronomical information on the period of Sirius B, the white dwarf companion of Sirius. It can't be seen by the naked eye (by a long shot), yet this knowledge is thousands of years old. When asked how they know this, the shamans answer that they just speak to the inhabitants of a planet orbiting around there. Dialogs with the "Sirius beings" are very old, dating to at least pre-pyramid Egypt. Now, I wouldn't want to be living next to any blue-white giants like Sirius, but maybe somebody can. Maybe we're going about this SETI thing the wrong way. We should be hiring shamans from Africa to search through the nearest stars... Only half-joking, . I've seen things you people wouldn't DEATH . .. believe. Attack ships on fire off . . . the shoulder of Orion. I've watched . . . . sea-beams glitter in the dark by the . .. . . . . Tannhauser gate. All these moments . . . . . .. will be lost in time, like tears . . . . . . . in rain. Time to die. - Roy Baty
palmer@tybalt.caltech.edu (David Palmer) (07/22/89)
In article <479@tahoma.UUCP> jpg3196@tahoma.UUCP (James P. Galasyn) writes: > > Off-the-wall observation here, which probably belongs in > talk.religion.newage: It does :-) > the Dogon tribe, among others in Africa, have rather > precise astronomical information on the period of Sirius B, the white > dwarf companion of Sirius. It can't be seen by the naked eye (by a long > shot), yet this knowledge is thousands of years old. The precision of the astronomical information is more or less limited to its existence and invisibility to the naked eye. (I think I've heard that they also know the period, but I don't know how accurately they know it. If my God were a double star, one of the possible periods I might use would be the typical time it takes a person to die of old age. (Although a more likely period owuld be one Human generation time. The choice depends on the God.) The actual period of Sirius B is 50 years.) They also have information about Sirius C, D, E ... (I forget the exact number of companions they know about.) This 'knowledge' goes far beyond anything which has shown up on astronomical plates of Sirius. David Palmer palmer@tybalt.caltech.edu ...rutgers!cit-vax!tybalt.caltech.edu!palmer "Only 10% of the 4000 mile long coastline was affected." -Exxon's version of the oil spill as reported to stockholders
arrom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) (07/22/89)
> Off-the-wall observation here, which probably belongs in > talk.religion.newage: the Dogon tribe, among others in Africa, have rather > precise astronomical information on the period of Sirius B, the white > dwarf companion of Sirius. It can't be seen by the naked eye (by a long > shot), yet this knowledge is thousands of years old. When asked how they > know this, the shamans answer that they just speak to the inhabitants of > a planet orbiting around there. Dialogs with the "Sirius beings" are > very old, dating to at least pre-pyramid Egypt. Sigh. I suppose this _should_ belong in sci.skeptic, if that group ever gets created. The people in question had ample contact with Europeans to have gotten the information. If you could give me a source for your claims that dialogs date to "pre-pyramid Egypt", I'd like to see it. -- "The fact is self evident from the text and requires no supporting argument." --Tim Maroney Kenneth Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!ins_akaa; BITNET: g49i0188@jhuvm; INTERNET: arromdee@crabcake.cs.jhu.edu) (please, no mail to arrom@aplcen)
wayne@csri.toronto.edu (Wayne Hayes) (07/22/89)
In article <479@tahoma.UUCP> jpg3196@tahoma.UUCP (James P. Galasyn) writes: > > Off-the-wall observation here, which probably belongs in > talk.religion.newage: the Dogon tribe, among others in Africa, have rather > precise astronomical information on the period of Sirius B, the white > dwarf companion of Sirius. It can't be seen by the naked eye (by a long > shot), yet this knowledge is thousands of years old. Read _Broca's_Brain_, by Carl Sagan. He debunks this in chapter 6, "White Dwafs and Little Green Men". The story goes basically like this. Sirius B was discovered in 1862 by Alvan Clark. At the time, white dwarfs hadn't been discovered. It was realized that Sirius B was quite an extraordinary star, so much so that the story make headlines in regular newspapers, so the average guy-on-the-street knew about Sirius B. Then 70 years later, in the 1930's, Marcel Griaule, an anthropologist with a knowledge of astronomy, discovers the Dogon's incredible myth about Sirius B. He also discovers that they know about Jupiter's 4 moons and Saturn's rings. It appears the Dogon have knowledge that could only have come from extra-terrestrials. However there was 70 years between the discovery of Sirius B and Griaule's account of their legends. It is not inconceivable that the Dogon had had contact with other Westerners who told them of Sirius B, and then subsequently incorperated this story into their myths. The important thing to note is that the Dogon are not as dogmatic about their myths as most western religions are, so they are not above changing their myths which are, by the way, passed on completely by word of mouth. Sagan cites another tribe in an adjacent valley that suffered from a rare disease called Kuru, a virus. In 1957, a physician studying this disease showed the tribespeople what the virus looked like though a microscope. A few months later, a different phyisician (not knowing that they had observed the virus through a microscope) asked them to describe what they know about the disease. Part of the description told of an "invisible evil", accompanied by a diagram in the sand that looked very similar to the Kuru virus. The tribespeople maintained that this was part of their legend, and only later did the physicians realize that the myth had been changed to account for the knew information of the first physician. (They probably weren't trying to dupe us, that's just the way their verbal legends grow.) Anyway, there is of course no firm evidence that the Dogon had been visited by Westerners before Griaule, but the popularity of Sirius B and the fact that there WERE Westerners exploring that area before Griaule seems a much more likely explanation that Extra- terrestrial visitors. Read Broca's Brain for more info. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Open the pod bay doors, HAL." "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." Wayne Hayes INTERNET: wayne@csri.toronto.edu CompuServe: 72401,3525
preacher@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (J.A. Fegan) (07/23/89)
From article <479@tahoma.UUCP>, by jpg3196@tahoma.UUCP (James P. Galasyn): > > Now, I wouldn't want to be living next to any blue-white giants like > Sirius, but maybe somebody can. ok so what's wrong with living next to a blue-white giant? -- Never be backward wen visitors kum; | mailrus!sharkey!lopez!preacher Don't sit there quiet like a sap |-------------------------------- Be sociable! Tell'em wot momma called pa When she found the maid parked on his lap. -- Tha Return Uv Snowshoe Al
thebang@blake.acs.washington.edu (Siobahn Morgan) (07/24/89)
In article <841@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US> preacher@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (J.A. Fegan) writes: >From article <479@tahoma.UUCP>, by jpg3196@tahoma.UUCP (James P. Galasyn): >> >> Now, I wouldn't want to be living next to any blue-white giants like >> Sirius, but maybe somebody can. > > >ok so what's wrong with living next to a blue-white giant? > Plenty! The major drawback is the short Main Sequence Lifetime (when it is stable, burning hydrogen into helium). For the sun, the MS life is estimated to be 10 billion years. For blue-white (very hot) stars like Sirius, the lifetime is closer to Millions of years, hardly enough time to get any serious evolution started. Also due to the higher temperature, the star would be producing more light in all wavelengths, but most of it would be in the Ultra-Violet, not good for life as we know it, but who can tell what little bug-eyed monsters might enjoy? Siobahn (Shabang) Morgan thebang@blake.acs.washington.edu "Yes,...No,...Yes,...No,...." - response to a single question by long suffering faculty member.
arf@chinet.chi.il.us (Jack Schmidling) (07/24/89)
agiant/e4
Ref: Article 4892 (2 more) in sci.astro:
From: preacher@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (J.A. Fegan)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
Subject: Re: Catch-A-Planet (was:Re:Curiosity)
Preacher says:
>ok so what's wrong with living next to a blue-white giant?
Arf says:
It's sort of like a "changing neighborhood"; really drives
down property values. A normal, white sequence star is much
to be preferred. But nothing quite comes close to having a
Black hole for a neighbor.
The Amateur Radio Forum (arf)