glenn@LL-VLSI.ARPA (Glenn Chapman) (01/25/89)
The USSR's Phobos II probe to Mars has suffered a "major hardware
problem" with its communications, according to both Defense Daily and Soviet
Areospace (Jan. 9th). The main transmitter, a 50 Watt high data rate system,
has failed almost completely, and there is little chance it can be recovered.
This leaves only the 5 Watt low rate back up transmitter, obviously with
little capacity for the imaging data of Mars/Phobos. The high data rate
system was to operate at 4000 bits per second, the same as the US Viking
probes. Roughly the new lower rate will be 1/10 of this (though some increase
may be possible depending on the noise levels. Note that the internal
storage capacity on the Phobos probe is 30 Megbytes.
Russian researchers believe that they should still be able to get the
data from the Phobos encounter on April 7. The two Phobos surface probes, the
base station and the hopper, have their own transmitters. However, the initial
Martian orbital data, slated to start on Jan 29th, will be drastically
reduced. The good news is that the three FREGAT television cameras and the
connected spectrometer have been repaired after an earlier problem. The
computer has room for 1100 groups of pictures from the 4 instruments, hence
the problem on the initial orbits. Also one of 10 particle stream instruments
has failed, but that is not considered critical (sorry I am not certain
exactly which of the charged particle instrument they are referring to here).
All of this comes after the earlier total failure of Phobos I.
According to earlier information the Russians should have started the
final course corrections sometime between Jan. 14 to 22, but I have not heard
of it. Phobos will be heading towards Mars from the interplanetary orbit and
reach about a minimum distance of 800 Km (500 miles) on the 29th. At that
point the retros will fire, to insert the craft into a highly elliptical orbit
of 4200 Km (2610 mi) periares and 79,000 Km (49,100 mi.) apoares of 72 hours
period (sorry - I am just guessing that they will combine the greek orbital
prefixes with the greek name for Mars). It will maintain this orbit for 25
days with the original plans calling for high resolution photos of Mars.
Note: for those trying to follow the Phobos missions the best source I
have seen is the new book "Race to Mars" edited by Frank Miles and Nicholas
Booth, Harper & Row pub. (1988) $19.95; Library of Congress call number
TL799.M3R3.
Sorry for the delay in this report (and my other Soviet program data) but
I was off at a conference and have just gotten caught up from the January
rush. Also I must thank several people who sent kind notes with respect to my
postings at the year's end - my net connections do not all me to reply to all
of you but your interest is appreciated.
Glenn Chapman
MIT Lincoln Labkevin@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Kevin S. Van Horn) (01/26/89)
> The USSR's Phobos II probe to Mars has suffered a "major hardware >problem" with its communications, according to both Defense Daily and Soviet >Areospace (Jan. 9th). [...] Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I can't help but wonder if Phobos I and Phobos II are in fact doing fine and the Soviets are only claiming failures so that they don't have to share the information from them with anyone. Does anyone have any information that would either support or discredit this idea? Kevin S. Van Horn
bonin@ut-emx.UUCP (Marc Bonin) (01/26/89)
In article <9265@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>, kevin@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Kevin S. Van Horn) writes: > > The USSR's Phobos II probe to Mars has suffered a "major hardware > >problem" with its communications, according to both Defense Daily and Soviet > >Areospace (Jan. 9th). [...] > > Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I can't help but wonder if Phobos I and Phobos II > are in fact doing fine and the Soviets are only claiming failures so that they > don't have to share the information from them with anyone. I think you are being paranoid. Do you think Gorby would sacrifice all the limelight and prestige from the world scientific community just to jealously guard the data ? Marc Bonin Dept. of Aerospace Engineering University of Texas at Austin
masticol@paul.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) (01/26/89)
Kevin S. Van Horn writes: >>The USSR's Phobos II probe to Mars has suffered a "major hardware problem" with its communications, according to both Defense Daily and Soviet >>Areospace (Jan. 9th). [...] > Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I can't help but wonder if Phobos I and Phobos II are in fact doing fine and the Soviets are only claiming failures so that they don't have to share the information from them with anyone. Does anyone have any information that would either > support or discredit this idea? NASA made a search for Phobos II with the Deep Space Network and found nothing. Besides, unless the data they'd acquire was more valuable in some way than the publicity they'd get from the success of the probe, I can't see any reason to conceal the data from anyone. - Steve (masticol@paul.rutgers.edu)
kazim@Apple.COM (Alex Kazim) (01/27/89)
In article <9265@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> kevin@cit-vax.UUCP (Kevin S. Van Horn) writes: > >Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I can't help but wonder if Phobos I and Phobos II >are in fact doing fine and the Soviets are only claiming failures so that they >don't have to share the information from them with anyone. Does anyone have >any information that would either support or discredit this idea? > >Kevin S. Van Horn You're being paranoid. The Soviets have been sharing their data on their Venus & Halley probes. Their Mars trip is giant feather in their hat, even though it's soon becoming a pain in their butts. I'm truly surprised that they are being so forward with their problems, but I'd rather be trusting in Glasnost, than paranoid. ============================================================================ Alex Kazim, Apple Computer My opinions, my ideas, my problems ============================================================================
szabonj@humpback (Nick Szabo) (01/28/89)
In article <9265@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> kevin@cit-vax.UUCP (Kevin S. Van Horn) writes: > >I can't help but wonder if Phobos I and Phobos II >are in fact doing fine and the Soviets are only claiming failures so that they >don't have to share the information from them with anyone. The Soviets had planned to transmit much of their data through NASA's DSN (I helped schedule them time while I was at JPL). This would have necessitated them sharing it in real time--no chance for them to look at the pictures and say 'oops, we don't want Capitalists to see that!'. I'm not sure if the weakened Phobos II transmitter will still use the DSN. (I can call my old boss and find out, if anyone's interested). The Phake Phobos Phlub-Up theory must explain either a sophisticated con job in planning use of the DSN in the first place, or a change of heart before either probe got anywhere near Phobos. It must also explain how DSN technicians could be fooled by fake probe specs. If both probes are still transmitting at full power, it may be possible for DSN or smaller dishes aimed at Phobos to detect the signals. If memory serves, Phobos has a roughly equatorial orbit of 7 hours, 26 minutes. Transmissions will occur when Phobos is on this side of Mars, Mars is in view of the Soviet 70-meter dishes, and the not-so-flexible Soviet probe antennas manage to point themselves towards Earth. Since U.S. dishes will be in view of Mars on an almost opposite schedule of the Soviets', the Madrid DSN 70-meter and a Japanese 64-meter come to mind as the best antennas for detecting Phobos Phraud. Full data on the Phobos orbit and the Soviet station view periods is available at JPL. Nick Szabo szabonj@fred.cs.washington.edu
reeck@lclark.UUCP (David Reeck) (01/31/89)
In article <105@beaver.cs.washington.edu> szabonj@humpback.UUCP (Nick Szabo) writes: >In article <9265@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> kevin@cit-vax.UUCP (Kevin S. Van Horn) writes: >> >>I can't help but wonder if Phobos I and Phobos II >>are in fact doing fine and the Soviets are only claiming failures so that they >>don't have to share the information from them with anyone. > >The Phake Phobos Phlub-Up theory must explain either a sophisticated con >job in planning use of the DSN in the first place, or a change of heart >before either probe got anywhere near Phobos. It must also explain how >DSN technicians could be fooled by fake probe specs. > >Nick Szabo szabonj@fred.cs.washington.edu You guys are ignoring what most of the non-techs of middle class america knows! According to the weekly world news, thoes probes encountered: 1) a 9 mile high statue of Elvis on mars 2) Elvis music coming from mars 3) Heaven, and God said 'You can go to Mars, but stay away from heaven, 'cause it's mine' (apparently Heaven is located somewhere close to mars) In conjunction with the fact that the Soviet Venus probes just found a face that is >>IDENTICAL<< to the one on mars, I'd say that the Soviets are just being wise. Who wants to mess with an interplanetary race that has the ability to create 9 mile high statues, or for that matter, God. The Soviets are obviously bowing out gracefully, with out having to provide the full blown explanation of why they are doing it. The probe failure is the best way to go. Dave Reeck !tektronix!reed!lclark!reeck .sig-less stardust disclaimer: This is intended as a joke only, please take no offence, the WWN is an 'entertainment journal' and not required to print the truth as far as I know -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// David Reeck !tektronix!reed!lclark!reeck // // Home of the Pio's -- Pio's of what you ask? Well, we're researching that...//\\ "
tee@mtuxo.att.com (54317-T.EBERSOLE) (01/31/89)
In article <9862@ut-emx.UUCP>, bonin@ut-emx.UUCP (Marc Bonin) writes: -> In article <9265@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>, kevin@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Kevin S. Van Horn) writes: -> > > The USSR's Phobos II probe to Mars has suffered a "major hardware -> > >problem" with its communications, according to both Defense Daily and -> > >Soviet Areospace (Jan. 9th). [...] -> > -> > Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I can't help but wonder if Phobos I and -> > Phobos II are in fact doing fine and the Soviets are only claiming failures -> > so that they don't have to share the information from them with anyone. -> -> I think you are being paranoid. Do you think Gorby would sacrifice all the -> limelight and prestige from the world scientific community just to jealously -> guard the data ? -> Of course. He's a politician. Maybe the Soviets expect to find fantastically super-advanced science left on the asteroid-city Phobos by those superbeings who built "the Face" and "the City" on Mars, and want to keep it to themselves so they can peacefully coexist with us capitalists less fearfully. So, I wouldn't worry about any ulterior motives they may have. They only want the best for mankind, as any Afghan can attest to. - - -- Tim Ebersole ...!att!mtuxo!tee or {allegra,ulysses,mtune,...}!mtuxo!tee