dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) (02/13/89)
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >If we assume that there is a useful amount of ice in lunar polar craters -- >not ridiculous but not at all certain either -- it clearly is possible to >start a lunar colony with today's technology. Before Challenger, in fact, >there was a proposal to do exactly that in 1992, as a commemoration of the >500th anniversary of Columbus. It would have been within reach of (major) >private funding, given extensive reliance on donated labor and materials... >but the reliance on six donated shuttle flights killed it. Wonderful, Henry. Lunar colonies (= a handful of people huddled underground) are feasible if you don't have to pay for little things like labor, materials or launchers. By the way, how many shuttle flights per year would be needed for support of this thing? Paul F. Dietz dietz@cs.rochester.edu
rodman@mfci.UUCP (Paul Rodman) (02/15/89)
In article <1989Feb13.074530.17504@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: > >Wonderful, Henry. Lunar colonies (= a handful of people huddled >underground) Are you trying to say that people huddled underground are worthless? How about people crammed into cities like Tokyo or NYC? How about people living in -80F in Alaska or Siberia? Are the people in Antartica doing research useless or pointless because they are "huddled underground"? Your imagery is pointless. Yes, a lunar base is probably underground, so what? Paul Rodman rodman@mfci.uucp
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (02/15/89)
In article <1989Feb13.074530.17504@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: >Wonderful, Henry. Lunar colonies (= a handful of people huddled >underground) are feasible if you don't have to pay for little things >like labor, materials or launchers... Not quite what I said, which was that a startup lunar colony was very cheap, and looked feasible *BY 1992*, if most of the big-ticket items were donated. (As for "a handful of people huddled underground", most of the early colonies in North America started with not much more, especially after the first winter.) >By the way, how many shuttle >flights per year would be needed for support of this thing? This was a *colony*, not a base, meaning no crew rotation and the intent to be self-sufficient in basic materials essentially at once. Remember also that it was conceived in the days when shuttle flights were supposedly going to be cheap and plentiful, so one or two a year for vital materials and expansion wasn't a big deal. I don't remember the numbers, but it did not assume massive ongoing support from Earth. -- The Earth is our mother; | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology our nine months are up. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
dmocsny@uceng.UC.EDU (daniel mocsny) (02/15/89)
In article <646@m3.mfci.UUCP>, rodman@mfci.UUCP (Paul Rodman) writes: > Are the people in Antartica doing research useless or pointless because they > are "huddled underground"? During the Antartic summer, the research bases maintain staff levels about ten times as high as in the winter. Wintering over in Antarctica is not great fun. Going outside is nearly impossible. 50--100 mph winds blow almost constantly. Temperatures are cold enough to immediately freeze any exposed flesh. The staffs undergo great psychological stress from the confinement. The typical 10:1 male:female sex ratios also cause problems (though one suspects that grad school should have adequately prepared the staffs :-). To the extent the Antarctic winter is similar to life on the moon, the experiences of the staffs provide valuable information on the prospects for sustaining communities there. Dan Mocsny dmocsny@uceng.uc.edu
ignac@electro.UUCP (Ignac Kolenko) (02/15/89)
In article <1989Feb14.171358.17916@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1989Feb13.074530.17504@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: >>Wonderful, Henry. Lunar colonies (= a handful of people huddled >>underground) are feasible if you don't have to pay for little things >>like labor, materials or launchers... > >Not quite what I said, which was that a startup lunar colony was very cheap, >and looked feasible *BY 1992*, if most of the big-ticket items were donated. >(As for "a handful of people huddled underground", most of the early colonies >in North America started with not much more, especially after the first >winter.) don't snicker too loudly just yet. i think it was arthur c. clarke who wrote in the intro to 2001: a space oddysey that all the money the u.s. spent on the useless war in vietnam, if it was rechanelled into the space program, everything he had described in the book could have been easily realizable today. in all cases, i wish he was right. -- Ignac A. Kolenko watmath!watcgl!electro!ignac "Perhaps if we built this large wooden badger ..." - from Monty Python and the Holy Grail
calufrax@blake.acs.washington.edu (Chad Fogg) (02/16/89)
In article <698@uceng.UC.EDU>, dmocsny@uceng.UC.EDU (daniel mocsny) writes: > To the extent the Antarctic winter is similar to life on the moon, the > experiences of the staffs provide valuable information on the prospects > for sustaining communities there. I understand that there are a few enclosed and sealed off artificial habitat experiments where simulated patches of greenery and hydro- ponics reside. I've heard of one in the SW US that is in operation. I've also seen photographs of a dome at the South Pole station. Is this part of the study? -CF
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (02/16/89)
In article <698@uceng.UC.EDU> dmocsny@uceng.UC.EDU (daniel mocsny) writes: >...To the extent the Antarctic winter is similar to life on the moon, the >experiences of the staffs provide valuable information on the prospects >for sustaining communities there. There is one obvious dissimilarity: the winter staff in Antarctica know that they're in "maintenance mode", with all the real activity waiting for the summer. This will affect motivation. -- The Earth is our mother; | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology our nine months are up. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu