gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) (06/13/91)
In article <IVAN%NEPJT.91Jun11205503@nepjt.ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> ivan@nepjt.ncsu.edu (Ivan Maldonado) writes: > >Actually, the advantages due to gold's great conductivity properties >could also be used to significantly reduce the electric power losses during >its transmission (i.e., replace copper with gold in transmission lines). >===> <pooff> goes the forecast of an electric energy crisis... :-) It's so sad to see NC State can't afford a CRC Handbook. Electrical resistance of selected elements in microhm-cm Silver 1.59 Copper 1.673 Gold 2.35 Aluminum 2.6548 Note that gold is much more resistive than copper or silver. Density gm/cc Silver 10.5 Copper 8.96 Gold 19.32 Aluminum 2.6989 Note that gold is much denser than Aluminum, copper, or silver. I won't bore you with tables of tensile strength. Suffice to say Aluminum, copper, and silver all have higher tensile strengths than gold. Aluminum has the best combination of light weight, high conductivity, and tensile strength of the group. It's also plentiful and cheap. Needless to say gold powerlines would be impractical even if gold were free. Gary
shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) (06/15/91)
In article <1991Jun14.183424.654@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> G E Derylo writes: I'm no economist, but wouldn't the introduction of that much gold and platinum into the market *drastically* decrease its value, making this a questionable financial venture? Sure, I know these materials also have crutial industrial applications, so we're not just dealing with jewelry here. But we're talking about a cubes of pure gold and platinum 25.53 and 53.09 feet on a side respectively. I would think this kind of find, if it were dug up tomarrow in the middle of Nebraska, would do really nastiy things to our gold-based (?) economy. Can anyone with some econ background comment on this? The gold and silver that the Spanish brought back from the New World messed up the European economy quite greviously. Galloping inflation, with too much money (precious metals, of course) chasing too few goods. This caused a lot of instability, first economic and then political. The diamond cartel (de Beers) very stringently limits the supply of diamonds, to keep the price high. -- Mary Shafer shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer NASA Ames Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA Of course I don't speak for NASA "Turn to kill, not to engage." CDR Willie Driscoll
bryans@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (B. Charles Siegfried) (06/16/91)
shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: >The gold and silver that the Spanish brought back from the New World >messed up the European economy quite greviously. Galloping inflation, >with too much money (precious metals, of course) chasing too few goods. >This caused a lot of instability, first economic and then political. When the Spanish brought back their riches, Europe's currency was essentially based on precious metals. Gold and silver do have more influence than most commodities, but an infusion of a larg amount of gold would have little effect on the whole world economy compared to what Europe experienced in the mercatilist age. Besides, the need to open new markets and to grow certainly outweighs any minor dislocations in the process. Europe may have experienced a little shake - up when their metal currency was debased, but the summ effect of colonialization provided a tremendous boost to the European economy. __ Bryan Siegfried Biology and Economics at UIUC zig@uiuc.edu
carl@sol1.gps.caltech.edu (Carl J Lydick) (06/16/91)
In article <SHAFER.91Jun14222620@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov>, shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: >In article <1991Jun14.183424.654@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> G E Derylo >writes: > > I'm no economist, but wouldn't the introduction of that much gold > and platinum into the market *drastically* decrease its value, > making this a questionable financial venture? Sure, I know these > materials also have crutial industrial applications, so we're not > just dealing with jewelry here. > > But we're talking about a cubes of pure gold and platinum 25.53 and > 53.09 feet on a side respectively. I would think this kind of find, > if it were dug up tomarrow in the middle of Nebraska, would do > really nastiy things to our gold-based (?) economy. > > Can anyone with some econ background comment on this? > >The gold and silver that the Spanish brought back from the New World >messed up the European economy quite greviously. Galloping inflation, >with too much money (precious metals, of course) chasing too few goods. >This caused a lot of instability, first economic and then political. > >The diamond cartel (de Beers) very stringently limits the supply of >diamonds, to keep the price high. One thing you've got to remember about gold: it's not a purely market issue; it's sort of quasi-religious. There are so many people out there who think there's something special about it that even a rumor of a drop in its price could cause a panic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
dscy@eng.cam.ac.uk (D.S.C. Yap) (06/17/91)
> In <1991Jun11.055227.2611@nas.nasa.gov> crayfe@nas.nasa.gov (Cray Hardware >Support) writes: > Today's Washington Post reports that an asteroid has been found orbiting the >Sun at a distance of about 20 million miles from Earth (closest point). It >apparently contains 10000 tons of gold and 100000 tons of platinum, as well as >10 billion tons of iron and 1 billion tons of nickel. Its estimated worth was >put at around 1 trillion dollars. > This might be one of the first real applications of Space technology. I say >NASA should issue stocks to built a space craft to go and bring that thing >down. This could open up another very lucrative investment, a side from >satellites. The technology we gain could help us mine other things in the >space too. Then, boldly going were no man has gone before makes business sense >to. G E Derylo replies: > I'm no economist, but wouldn't the introduction of that much gold and >platinum into the market *drastically* decrease its value, making this a >questionable financial venture? Sure, I know these materials also have crutial >industrial applications, so we're not just dealing with jewelry here. This is just one of many posts that come to the same conclusion about the financial viability of a venture to mine (you wouldn't bring the whole thing back) that asteriod. I think it's a bit short sighted to assume that you would want to bring that stuff back to earth so that you could sell it on the open market. Hell, it's damn expensive to get that stuff up there in the first place, both in terms of energy and money. There are some things that can only be manufactured in microgravity, but in any manufacturing process you need raw materials - it's nice to know there's lots up there, not too far away. If anyone is seriously considering going out to fetch it, "Have I got a solar sail for you!" :-) It's the perfect thing, it's smart (semi-automatic, adaptive control), never needs refueling, will shuttle back and forth from the asteriod in practical time frames, and if you're serious, we can have one ready for you in two to three years (or less - best estimates are ten weeks to actually build one, but the design is still underway). "Guess what?", I'm not kidding. Oh yes, the price, say $40M for the first one, much less for subsequent ones (but that's just a rough guess on my part, you can't hold me to it because I'm not in charge - I'm just working on the structural dynamics of the beast - the powers that be probably want to make a profit, besides, I'm just posting for fun - this is not an ad). Of course, that price is without launch. Cheers, Davin -- .oO tuohtiw esoht fo noitanigami eht ot gnihton evael Oo. Davin Yap, University Engineering Department, Cambridge, England --> dscy@eng.cam.ac.uk <--
wreck@fmsrl7.UUCP (Ron Carter) (06/18/91)
In article <memo.54291@cix.compulink.co.uk> dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths) writes: >I can't imagine any way of safely bringing a whole asteroid to the >earth's surface for a long, long time. Even if it was brought down in >small pieces it would still be several orders of magnitude beyond >present technology. Not true, if you're willing to sacrifice part of it. Just mold pieces into lens-shapes like an Apollo heat shield, and drop them. If they are mostly iron and land in water, you can just troll for them with an electromagnet to recover them. >What would be needed to smelt the asteroid in situ, and just bring >back the most valuable metals ? Good question, but separating the metals from the slag, the iron from the nickel, etc. has more possibilities than just returning unmodified asteroid pieces. If mirrors can be deposited using CVD, then it should be possible to make solar sails from iron. Attaching a sail and a small guidance module to a payload package (platinum and gold wrapped in slag or nickel) would allow them to sail back to Earth by themselves.
jfm@med.unc.edu (John F. Miller) (06/18/91)
In article <SHAFER.91Jun14222620@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: >The diamond cartel (de Beers) very stringently limits the supply of >diamonds, to keep the price high. DeBeers does not merely try to keep the price of diamonds high. Their more important goal is to keep the price of diamonds _STABLE_ and rising just slightly faster than the overall inflation rate. In the late 1970's and early 1980's, inflation was running rampant, and speculators drove diamond prices to very high levels (from which they subsequently collapsed). During that time, speculators were buying and selling diamond rough that would normally go to diamond cutters. DeBeers tried to curb the speculative activity, since they knew the bubble would burst and have a harmful effect on the entire diamond industry. Prices have been rising very moderately for the past few years (following the crash). -- John Miller, Graduate Gemologist/Gemcutter/Analyst Programmer -- John Miller (jfm@med.unc.edu) Department of Pharmacology, UNC-CH School of Medicine 1026A FLOB (231H) CB#7365, Chapel Hill, NC 27599 Tel: (919) 966-6966