rickc@agora.UUCP (Rick Coates) (07/22/89)
I am taking a class 'Computers in Primary Education', which is essentially a Logo programming class. What I am wondering is: does anybody make a turtle (a physical one, that runs around on the floor with a pen) and Logo interpreter for the IBM PC? How much $? How about ordinary (screen turtle) packages for the PC? Any opinions? Thanks, Rick Coates Consulting H/W - S/W engineer (Graphics - Sun - Unix - ASIC design - imbedded systems) ...!tektronix!reed!percival!agora!rickc
vail@tegra.UUCP (Johnathan Vail) (07/24/89)
IBM sells a Logo. They don't seem to like to admit it though and from what I have heard their sales people don't know about it but they do indeed sell one and with some persistence you should be able to track it down. Terrapin in Boston used to (5-6 years ago) sell floorturtles. I have no idea if they are still around. I used to be involved with Logo when Apples were the big machine. I haven't kept up with it but if you need more info I have a few pointers I could follow... REPEAT 3 [ FUN ] _____ | | Johnathan Vail | tegra!N1DXG@ulowell.edu |Tegra| (508) 663-7435 | N1DXG@145.110-,145.270-,444.2+,448.625- -----
rogers@falcon.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Brynn Rogers) (07/25/89)
Here is a source for the one commercial LOGO I found and thier description
of it:
PC logo by Harvard Associates $79
Full LOGO implimentation features turtle graphics, DOS, BIOS, and
assembly calls. Includes tutorial, reference manual, sample programs
and utilities diskette.
The Programmers Shop 800-421-8006
My sister is buying this package and I will post a review of it.
It looks like it should be pretty extensible since is includes DOS
BIOS and assembly calls.
Disclaimer: standerd I am not associated with disclaimer.
Brynn Rogers Honeywell S&RC rogers@src.honeywell.com
612-782-7737 use this address if your reply bouncesmmackay+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael MacKay) (07/25/89)
Rick, MIT has a Lego Lab project that uses Logo, and that was demonstrated through a video at last years' SIGGRAPH. The lab, which is sponsored princiapally by Lego, apparently uses D/A converters running on an AT class machine controlled through a high-level Logo interface, including language extensions, that drive connected motorized Lego toys. Children were shown doing basic robotic and art experiments (no turtles were shown however). I recall that Seymour Papert is the principal investigator in the work. You may get more info by contacting MIT or the Media Lab, I don't have any names offhand, however. I cannot say that I have used Logo on a PC, and I have little experience except with C, Pascal, and Assembly on PC systems- I usually use a Mac. I CAN tell you that ExperTelligence makes a Logo for the Mac, so if you can get your hands on a Mac, perhaps you can experiment with it. The product is titled "ExperLogo-Plus", and sells for a list price of $95.00. ExperTelligence can be reached at 805-969-7871 (Santa Barbara, CA). If you haven't seen it, I know MIT press publishes a three volume set on application of the Logo language for various instructional purposes (code and theory). Looks helpful. Hope this helps, --Mike
toma@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) (07/26/89)
In article <26252@srcsip.UUCP> rogers@falcon.UUCP (Brynn Rogers) writes: >Here is a source for the one commercial LOGO I found and thier description >of it: >PC logo by Harvard Associates $79 > Full LOGO implimentation features turtle graphics, DOS, BIOS, and > assembly calls. Includes tutorial, reference manual, sample programs > and utilities diskette. I bought this several years ago for the kids, and was satisfied with it. My reason for buying it at the time was that it was the only version which did not have copy protection. While this may have changed, the other versions were IBM's (copy protected), and Digital Research's (both copy protected and ran under CP/M-86!). LOGO is a decent programming language in its own right, sort of a LISP with a more familiar syntax. But this was an old implementation that was DOS 1.0 compatible (i.e., no directory support). The did send me a notice about a new version recently; I don't know if they "fixed" that. It does only support CGA, and even though it was advertised as having joystick support, there was no mention of it in the package. Tom Almy toma@tekgvs.labs.tek.com Standard Disclaimers Apply
dar@telesoft.UUCP (David Reisner) (07/26/89)
Digital Research (Monterey, California, I think) had and may still have a logo (DR Logo). Reasonable price and performance, if I recall my long distant researches. I think I still have my 9-track tape of a public domain implementation for PDP-11 Unix... -David ucsd!telesoft!dar, dar@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu
tilley@cs.rochester.edu (Dave Tilley) (07/27/89)
In article <579@atlas.tegra.UUCP> vail@tegra.UUCP (Johnathan Vail) writes: > >IBM sells a Logo. They don't seem to like to admit it though and from >what I have heard their sales people don't know about it but they do >indeed sell one and with some persistence you should be able to track >it down. > >Terrapin in Boston used to (5-6 years ago) sell floorturtles. I have >no idea if they are still around. > >I used to be involved with Logo when Apples were the big machine. I >haven't kept up with it but if you need more info I have a few >pointers I could follow... > >REPEAT 3 [ FUN ] > _____ >| | Johnathan Vail | tegra!N1DXG@ulowell.edu >|Tegra| (508) 663-7435 | N1DXG@145.110-,145.270-,444.2+,448.625- > ----- I called Terrapin. They don't sell them anymore. They however gave me some leads. 1) Harvard Associates. (617) 492-0660 Cost: $600 YIKES! 2) J R HOLCOMB (216) 341-3000 The guy I talked to couldn't find anything on his list but is checking and will get back to me. dave -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Dave Tilley cs.rochester.edu
rogers@falcon.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Brynn Rogers) (07/27/89)
In article <1989Jul26.205637.7163@cs.rochester.edu> tilley@cs.rochester.edu (Dave Tilley) writes: >I called Terrapin. They don't sell them anymore. They however gave me some >leads. >1) Harvard Associates. (617) 492-0660 > Cost: $600 YIKES! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you followed this thread in comp.sys.ibm.pc you would have seen my posting that said The Programmers Shop (1-800-4241-8006) is selling a PC logo from Harvard Associates for $79. ($99 list) This $600 must be for a site license for a school or something. Some of the features were MSDOS calls, BIOS calls and assembly calls. With that it should make it as extensible as needed. My sister was going to buy this package, I'll report back on how she liked it. Brynn Rogers Honeywell S&RC rogers@src.honeywell.com 612-782-7737 use this address if your reply bounces
pardo@june.cs.washington.edu (David Keppel) (07/27/89)
There is (was) a Logo mailing list. Disclaimer: I've never been on it, used
Logo, or had a cat named Fred.
Mail: logo-friends@aiai.ed.ac.uk
Meta-mail: logo-friends-request@aiai.ed.ac.uk
;-D on ( What is in the Logo logo? ) Pardo
--
pardo@cs.washington.edu
{rutgers,cornell,ucsd,ubc-cs,tektronix}!uw-beaver!june!pardompcook@chinet.chi.il.us (Michael P. Cook) (07/27/89)
I have a copy of a public domain version of LOGO called LADYBUG. You can
download it from my BBS, DISCOVERY PLACE - 312-383-6335 (3/12/2400 8N1),
located in Oak Park IL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Cook Oak Park IL USA
usenet address: mpcook@chinet.chi.il.us
SYSOP of DISCOVERY PLACE BBS - Educational Software, Kids, Parenting
312-383-6335 (No Fee Required) 24 hrs/day 8N1 3/12/2400 baud
----------------------------------------------------------------------gideony@microsoft.UUCP (Gideon Yuvall) (07/27/89)
Ladybug (a Logo clone) is available from many sources of public- -domain PC S/W. It seems an eminently usable Logo; I think it's shareware. -- Gideon Yuval, gideony@microsof.UUCP, 206-882-8080 (fax:206-883-8101;TWX:160520)
tilley@cs.rochester.edu (Dave Tilley) (07/29/89)
In article <26422@srcsip.UUCP> rogers@falcon.UUCP (Brynn Rogers) writes: >In article <1989Jul26.205637.7163@cs.rochester.edu> tilley@cs.rochester.edu > (Dave Tilley) writes: >>I called Terrapin. They don't sell them anymore. They however gave me some >>leads. > >>1) Harvard Associates. (617) 492-0660 >> Cost: $600 YIKES! > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > If you followed this thread in comp.sys.ibm.pc you would have seen my >posting that said The Programmers Shop (1-800-4241-8006) is selling a PC logo >from Harvard Associates for $79. ($99 list) > This $600 must be for a site license for a school or something. > >Some of the features were MSDOS calls, BIOS calls and assembly calls. >With that it should make it as extensible as needed. > >My sister was going to buy this package, I'll report back on how she liked it. > Brynn Rogers Honeywell S&RC rogers@src.honeywell.com > 612-782-7737 use this address if your reply bounces I was not quoting a price for LOGO but rather a physical turtle device that runs around on the floor. I was replying to the following lines of a previous posting. >>>Terrapin in Boston used to (5-6 years ago) sell floorturtles. I have >>>no idea if they are still around. Terapin does indeed sell LOGO and so do many folks for about $90. However I have been having trouble locating floor-turtles for any reasonable price. dave -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Dave Tilley cs.rochester.edu
nelson@aeras.UUCP (Nelson B. Bolyard) (07/30/89)
In article <9088@chinet.chi.il.us> mpcook@chinet.chi.il.us (Michael P. Cook) writes: >I have a copy of a public domain version of LOGO called LADYBUG. You can >download it from my BBS, DISCOVERY PLACE - 312-383-6335 (3/12/2400 8N1), >located in Oak Park IL. >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mike Cook Oak Park IL USA >usenet address: mpcook@chinet.chi.il.us >SYSOP of DISCOVERY PLACE BBS - Educational Software, Kids, Parenting >312-383-6335 (No Fee Required) 24 hrs/day 8N1 3/12/2400 baud >---------------------------------------------------------------------- Last December I downloaded LADYBUG from Discovery Place BBS. It came as an ARC file. The documentation included was very good, and I was eager to try it. Nearly every function I tried would cause Ladybug to mysteriously return me to my command prompt (exiting Ladybug). Since I had recently acquired Turbo Debugger, and since I've had lots of experience in debugging 8086 code without source, I went in and found the problem. In no less than two places, the compiled basic program actually checksums the ROM BIOS and compares the checksum against the value for the original IBM PC !! If the checksum doesn't match, the program exits!! The fix was simple, after the checksum is done, simply ignore the results!! With this modification, LADYBUG runs on my AST Premium 286. I'm not going to report LADYBUG, but I've included below the input needed to the DOS DEBUG program to patch LADYBUG. After you download LADYBUG from Mike Cook's BBS, do the following steps: 1. take the 6 lines below (between the snip lines) and enter them into a file on your PC clone. The file should be called LADYBUG.DBG. There should be no trailing blanks on any of the lines. 2. Copy LADYBUG.EXE to LADYBUG.BIN on your PC 3. run the following command DEBUG LADYBUG.BIN < LADYBUG.DBG 4. rename LADYBUG.EXE to LADYBUG.OLD 5. rename LADYBUG.BIN to LADYBUG.EXE 6. run LADYBUG and it will work. ----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip e 434 90 90 e 30bb 90 90 w q ----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip----X---snip Some comments about Ladybug: The clipping feature doesn't work well. When the turtle goes off the screen or comes back on, a line is drawn from the place where the turtle starts (or ends) on screen to some seemingly random location. The result is that spirals and things that tend to go off screen and then come back on tend to look pretty bad. Because youngsters tend to be motivated by seeing things look "just right", when they get these unexpected results, they get discouraged. When even DAD can't fix it, junior gets really bummed. So we've pretty much stopped using LADYBUG. I'm inclined to try one of these $79 alternatives. ============================================================================= Nelson B. Bolyard UUCP: ...sun!aeras!nelson Principle Software Engineer ARPA: nelson%aeras@sun.com Arix Corporation phone: (408) 922-8391 (formerly Arete' Systems) USmail: 821 Fox Lane, San Jose, CA 95131 Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.