[misc.kids] Problems with children using Windows3

garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) (11/17/90)

I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games.  He has
learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games
(minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire).  In general I think it's
great and am very proud of his abilities.

The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any
of the icons he sees.  I don't want to discourage his curiosity,
but I have found that windows will no longer run in enhanced mode
[yes a four year old on a 25mhz 386 ;-)].  I will probably end up
just re-installing windows but the larger concern is how to limit this
powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format
hard disk, erase all files, etc.).

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) (11/19/90)

In article <1990Nov20.065925.14745@ivucsb.sba.ca.us> todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us
>(Todd Day) writes:

>Anyway, has anyone found a way to protect against this sort of thing?
>Will making the group folders and the .ini files "READ ONLY" prevent
>people from changing things around?
>

What a great idea! I tried this and it works. I made my son's group read
only and then I tried deleting some apps from it. I got a dialogue box from
Windows saying that I couldn't do that because the group was protected.
Then I tried resizing the application group and exiting Windows with the
save changes option. Again, Windows informed me that it wouldn't save my
changes to the protected group.

Thanks to Todd Day for a simple and elegant solution to part of the problem.
Note that this helpful hint cannot be found in the Windows manual. It
certainly belongs there.  Also, remember that you can change filew
attributes from File Manager - I changed them with the Norton before
I realized that I could do this within Windows.

   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   o   Saul Traiger		 oooooo  Cognitive Science	   o
   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   o   Internet:traiger@oxy.edu  *----*  Occidental College	   o
   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   o   CIS:71631,717		 oooooo  Los Angeles, CA 90041	   o
   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) (11/20/90)

In article <719@retix.retix.COM> garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) writes:
>I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games.  He has
>learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games
>(minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire).  In general I think it's
>great and am very proud of his abilities.
>
>The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any
>of the icons he sees.	I don't want to discourage his curiosity,
>but I have found that windows will no longer run in enhanced mode
>[yes a four year old on a 25mhz 386 ;-)].  I will probably end up
>just re-installing windows but the larger concern is how to limit this
>powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format
>hard disk, erase all files, etc.).
>
>Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

I have a similar situation - a 25 Mhz 386, windows, and a 5 year old.
I set up an application group just for my 5 year old, with his name
as the name of the application group. I've told him that he can click
away at the roughly 18 applications in that group, but not on any others.
I've copied some applications which interest him from other groups, such
as clock, notepad and paint, but things which are not in his group are
off limits. He seems to be respecting those limits so far.

I still have some concerns because he is interested in saving his work,
particularly his art work, and he's already discovered the misfortunes
associated with overwriting an existing file with a new file with the same
file name.  So he's lost some of his "work", but none of mine.

My worst fear: I'll walk in the door one day and he'll be sitting at
the computer and he'll say: "Daddy, I just found a great new game - it's
called Wipedisk!

   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   o   Saul Traiger		 oooooo  Cognitive Science	   o
   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   o   Internet:traiger@oxy.edu  *----*  Occidental College	   o
   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   o   CIS:71631,717		 oooooo  Los Angeles, CA 90041	   o
   ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

gaz@apollo.HP.COM (Gary Zaidenweber) (11/20/90)

From article <719@retix.retix.COM>, by garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star):
> I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games.  He has
> learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games
> (minesweeper, paintbrush, and solitaire).  In general I think it's
> great and am very proud of his abilities.
> 
> The problem is that he is just as happy clicking and dragging any
> of the icons he sees.  I don't want to discourage his curiosity,
> but I have found that windows will no longer run in enhanced mode
> [yes a four year old on a 25mhz 386 ;-)].  I will probably end up
> just re-installing windows but the larger concern is how to limit this
> powerful environment so that he can't do any real damage (format
> hard disk, erase all files, etc.).
> 
> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

I've got the same problem, 4-year-old on a 386! I'm probably
going to make her a separate 10MB partition and a floppy which
she would be "required" to boot off of that would make my main
partition read-only. If it works, I'll be a happy camper, if 
not I'll probably buy her her own PC (XT with EGA can be had
for around $500) and tell her to keep the mits off of mine 
(I use it to run her and her sister's daycare center and can't 
afford to risk undetectable data corruption -- yes I do daily 
backups, but not daily restores.) I'd rather spend the money 
than take the risk.

Its neat to see how the world has changed.


Gary Zaidenweber         +1-508-256-6600x4360    | You're only young
Apollo Systems Division, Hewlett Packard Company | once, but if you
UUCP:   {umix|decvax|mit-eddie}!apollo!gaz       | do it right,
ARPA:   gaz@apollo.HP.COM FAX: +1-508-250-4943   | once is enough!

todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) (11/20/90)

traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) writes:
%
%In article <719@retix.retix.COM> garry@retix.retix.COM (Garry Star) writes:
%>I have a 4 year old son that uses my PC for games.  He has
%>learned to 'get around' in windows and play his favorite games
%>
%I have a similar situation - a 25 Mhz 386, windows, and a 5 year old.

Yes, I have a similar problem, but it's with a bunch of middle
aged engineers!  Unfortunately, they are all magnetics people, and
don't have that "hacker" instinct.  There are a few in the group
that think they do, however.  They all share two machines for report
writing and statistics gathering.  Some of them insist on rearanging
all of the icons all over the place, making things hard to find for
others.  They also like to change the setup stuff just to be pains in
the ass.

Anyway, has anyone found a way to protect against this sort of thing?
Will making the group folders and the .ini files "READ ONLY" prevent
people from changing things around?

-- 
Todd Day |   todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us   |  ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd

Zen koan:
		*finger = moon;		/* finger != moon */

philba@microsoft.UUCP (Phil BARRETT) (12/01/90)

In article <127690@tiger.oxy.edu> traiger@oxy.edu (Saul Traiger) writes:
>What a great idea! I tried this and it works. I made my son's group read
>only and then I tried deleting some apps from it. I got a dialogue box from
>Windows saying that I couldn't do that because the group was protected.
>Then I tried resizing the application group and exiting Windows with the
>save changes option. Again, Windows informed me that it wouldn't save my
>changes to the protected group.
>

In addition, you can create a `customized' installation of windows that
only gives the kid access to the various games and such and eliminates
the really dangerous ones (like file manager and maybe the dos prompt
and so on).  What you can do is set up a directory that contains only
the .grp files, various *.ini files and win.com.  Set up your machine
so that when you boot, it cd's to that directory and has the real
windows directory on the path (and if you like starts windows).  When
you start windows, it will use these ini & grp files rather than the
ones in your own configuration.  Then, configure the groups so there is
no file manager, setup, control panel, ... icons.  Then make the grp &
ini files read-only.  When you want to use the system, just CD out of
the kids directory and when you start windows, you get your version.

You can also use this trick to configure different versions for
different users.  This is essentially how you would set up windows on a
diskless workstation and I believe it is discussed in the networks.txt
file that shipped with the product.

phil
the above opinions are just mine and do not necessarily
represent those of my employer.