throopw@dg_rtp.UUCP (Wayne Throop) (12/06/86)
(Note: sci.med added to the newsgroups line.) > lotto@wjh12.UUCP (Jerry Lotto) > I seem to remember that the time scale for a dream is much faster than > reality. Perhaps the ENTIRE dream can be a reaction to a particular > external stimulus? This is a popular mythology surrounding dreams that incorporate "real world" events, to be sure, but it is not well substantiated. In fact, I recall some research reported in Science News a coupla years ago that indicated that dreams happen in more-or-less real time, not faster. This basic method (if I remember correctly) was to let people sleep, and annoy them after they had experienced various amounts of REM sleep. The ammount of time spent in REM corresponded closely to the ammount of time that the dream "seemed to take" when they were prodded awake and asked about what was going on. > Furthermore, I believe that you are not able to > move during a dream (assuming that the duration is a fraction of a > second or so. I am shakey on the detail here, will experts please > comment?). I'm no expert, but (I think from the same source) studies show that in REM sleep, one is indeed paralyzed and CANNOT move. Some intermediate sleep states bordering on REM are what tend to promote the "cannot move and danger approaching" or "stuck in molassas" type dreams that many folks experience. Once the chemical nature of this suppression was known, it was artificially prevented in cats, which then thrashed around during REM sleep, as if they were really running, jumping, playing, or whatever cats dream about, but with no co-ordination with the real world. So, your body is paralyzed in dream-state sleep so that you don't thrash around and hurt yourself. I think a good explanation of why external events are incorporated in dreams is a retroactive one. That is, the event is fit into some existing situation after it is perceived, and the situation it is fit into may actually be out-of-time-sequence, that is, may be a while pastwards in dream-time. Making this explanation a little more plausible, for the specific example of sounds, I recall studies (again, Science News is my best guess as to where I read it) showing that people tend to be unable to tell whether nearly-simultaneous events, one a sound and another something else, were really simultaneous, or which one really came first if not. Instead, the sound was fit into the perceived timestream where it "made sense", not where it "really" occured. This may be an inbred feature, rather than an inability, perhaps developed to allow a creature to associate a sound with a sight despite the propogation delay of sound displacing the events slightly. Thus, we perceive a hammer strike and the sound as simultaneous until they are quite far displaced by distance, and early "talkie" movie soundtracks could afford to be a little sloppy in sound synchronization and still be perceived as being in time with the action. Of course, I am spinning a large speculation on few facts, but I think it is plausible. The "facts" I take to be: first that dream-time is not very much faster than wake-time... one can't fit much more than a minute of subjective dream-time into a minute of actual sleep, and second that in terms of sound especially "simultenaity" and relative order of events can't be reliably perceived. -- We may not always be right; but, by God, we're never wrong. --- General Wombat -- Wayne Throop <the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!dg_rtp!throopw
ins_amap@jhunix.UUCP (Mark Aden Poling) (12/08/86)
In article <733@dg_rtp.UUCP>, throopw@dg_rtp.UUCP (Wayne Throop) writes: > > Furthermore, I believe that you are not able to > > move during a dream (assuming that the duration is a fraction of a > > second or so. I am shakey on the detail here, will experts please > > comment?). > (Cites a study showing that cats are partially paralysed during sleep.) > So, your body is paralyzed in dream-state sleep so that you > don't thrash around and hurt yourself. > I've heard basically the same things before, but they don't explain a recent incident that happened to me. In a dream I was fighting somebody, and in the manner of dreams things weren't going so well. I wasn't being hurt, but neither was I doing anything much against my antagonist. In the dream this was very frustrating, so finally I decided to put everything I had into one right cross. The outcome was predictable. I awoke in great pain, and now have a nice little scar on one of my nuckles. Fortunately there was a board behind the part of wall I hit, so all I had to worry about at the time was my hand. However, the incident does create an interesting problem in my social life. The wall-punching dream has only happened once, but I'm not sure how I'll fell about sleeping with anyone for a while. As if the resurgence of American morals wasn't enough :-). Be that as it may, does anyone want to have a crack at explaining why I've got this little scar on my hand? mark @ hopkins
dsn@mimsy.UUCP (Dana S. Nau) (12/14/86)
In article <4101@jhunix.UUCP> ins_amap@jhunix.UUCP (Mark Aden Poling) writes: >In article <733@dg_rtp.UUCP>, throopw@dg_rtp.UUCP (Wayne Throop) writes: >> (Cites a study showing that cats are partially paralysed during sleep.) >> So, your body is paralyzed in dream-state sleep so that you >> don't thrash around and hurt yourself. >> > > I've heard basically the same things before, but they don't explain >a recent incident that happened to me. ... I awoke in great pain, >and now have a nice little scar on one of my nuckles. On the other hand, it might help to explain an experience I had about ten years ago which has been a source of great puzzlement to me: In the middle of the night, I sort of woke up half way. My eyes were open, and I could see the wall of my room, but I was hearing music in my head, the way I do when I dream--and I couldn't move. At first, this intrigued me--but then I got scared. I tried hard to move, but still couldn't. Then, suddenly, I was completely awake: the music was gone, and I could move. If anyone knows of any studies that might explain this, I'd like to see them. -- Dana S. Nau, Comp. Sci. Dept., U. of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 dsn@mimsy.umd.edu seismo!mimsy!dsn (301) 454-7932
clewis@spectrix.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (12/15/86)
In article <4734@mimsy.UUCP> dsn@mimsy.UUCP (Dana S. Nau) writes: >In article <4101@jhunix.UUCP> ins_amap@jhunix.UUCP (Mark Aden Poling) writes: >>In article <733@dg_rtp.UUCP>, throopw@dg_rtp.UUCP (Wayne Throop) writes: >>> (Cites a study showing that cats are partially paralysed during sleep.) >>> So, your body is paralyzed in dream-state sleep so that you >>> don't thrash around and hurt yourself. >In the middle of the night, I sort of woke up half way. My eyes were open, >and I could see the wall of my room, but I was hearing music in my head, the >way I do when I dream--and I couldn't move. At first, this intrigued >me--but then I got scared. I tried hard to move, but still couldn't. Then, >suddenly, I was completely awake: the music was gone, and I could move. > >If anyone knows of any studies that might explain this, I'd like to see them. Me too. I've had experiences very much like this, starting the night I had my tonsils removed (22 years ago?). Usually when I'm very tired and am trying to get to sleep, say about 30 minutes after going to bed, but not having much success, I experience something wierd. The first couple of years it was the sense of having the room expand and feeling sort of an "out of body" feeling - looking back at myself. The last 5 years or so, it's been sort of like the above without the music - I recall sort of a "humming" in my head - sounding like having an overloaded 60Hz transformer against my ear - complete with vibration. Not particularly scary, except the first couple of times when I tried to move and found I couldn't. Now I just relax and after a while I can move. Used to happen a couple of times per week. Now it's sort of settled down to a couple of times per year. Described it to a TM teacher once who said it sounded a whole heck of a lot like the TM meditation state without the "direction" of trained meditation. He was right. It is. And TM is easier on the nerves because you're expecting it. It has never been associated with dreaming though. That I know of. Then again, I hardly ever remember having dreams anyways. Got a wierd brain I guess. Have never been particularly scared of it when awake - I was too young when it first happened to worry about it. Since then I've got independent evidence that I'm crazy... :-) -- Chris Lewis, Spectrix Microsystems Inc, UUCP: {utzoo|utcs|yetti|genat|seismo}!mnetor!spectrix!clewis ARPA: mnetor!spectrix!clewis@seismo.css.gov Phone: (416)-474-1955
throopw@dg_rtp.UUCP (Wayne Throop) (12/16/86)
> ins_amap@jhunix.UUCP (Mark Aden Poling) >> throopw@dg_rtp.UUCP (Wayne Throop) >> (Cites a study showing that cats are partially paralysed during sleep.) (actually only during REM sleep...) >> So, your body is paralyzed in dream-state sleep so that you >> don't thrash around and hurt yourself. > I've heard basically the same things before, but they don't explain > a recent incident that happened to me. In a dream I was fighting somebody, > [...]I awoke in great pain, > and now have a nice little scar on one of my nuckles. > does anyone want to have a crack at explaining > why I've got this little scar on my hand? I've had similar experiences, and explain them to myself this way. These situations happen when the dream state lasts longer than the paralyzed state, and are fairly rare. Usually, one stops dreaming before the paralysis wears off. But if the dream is particularly vivid, frightening, or whatever, one can get to a confused, near-awake state before the paralysis wears off, and the confusion in turn lasts until after the paralysis has worn off. Then, before the "real" situation has had a chance to establish itself, and still acting in the dream situation, you "feel" the fading paralysis, work this into the dream situation, fight to overcome it, suceed and... blammo, punch the nightstand, twitch violently as you hit bottom in a falling or running dream, scream out a warning you couldn't get out when trapped in molasses, or whatever. -- Like punning, programming is a play on words. --- Alan J. Perlis -- Wayne Throop <the-known-world>!mcnc!rti-sel!dg_rtp!throopw
bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) (12/16/86)
>I recall sort of a "humming" in >my head - sounding like having an overloaded 60Hz transformer against my >ear - complete with vibration. My first inclination was to skip this as a lot of idle chatter but yes, I've had precisely the same experience when falling asleep, interesting. -Barry Shein, Boston University
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (12/17/86)
In article <2956@bu-cs.BU.EDU> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes: > >>I recall sort of a "humming" in >>my head - sounding like having an overloaded 60Hz transformer against my >>ear - complete with vibration. > >My first inclination was to skip this as a lot of idle chatter but yes, >I've had precisely the same experience when falling asleep, interesting. > > -Barry Shein, Boston University Maybe it's an occupational disorder caused by falling asleep while leaning against the computer equipment too many times? 8-) -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
sierchio@milano.UUCP (12/30/86)
I wouldn't want you guys to incriminate yerselves, but have you noticed the humming (regular rhythm, freq. unk.) associated with the use of Nitrous Oxide? Not in the therapeutic setting, rather, via Balloon? "over all, there is a odour of frying onions..." -- William James -- Michael Sierchio @ MCC Software Technology Program UUCP: ut-sally!im4u!milano!sierchio ARPA: sierchio@mcc.ARPA THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED AREN'T NECESSARILY.
daver@sci.UUCP (Dave Rickel) (12/31/86)
It's been a while since i've been exposed to nitrous oxide in sufficient quantities to get a buzz, so i might be misremembering. Things i've noticed are sound distortion (someone seems to have turned up the bass), some interference with muscular control (the feedback system seemed to be munged somewhat--this might be related to the next effect), and a bit of time distortion. oh yes. also a tendency to laugh at stupid things. and a prickling of the skin. the effects seemed to be somewhat cumulative--it took longer to get back to normal as the evening wore on (the obvious effects went away in about the same period of time, but it took longer for my balance to return to normal). I've no idea as to what causes any of these effects, or whether they are common. david rickel cae780!weitek!sci!daver
jjc@teddy.UUCP (Jean J. Cote) (01/05/87)
Someone I knew once inhaled some nitrous oxide for recreational purposes and heard the humming sound that has been mentioned. He was quite surprised, as he had previously thought that it was the sound of the dentist's drill.