vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) (04/27/88)
As spring settles in, and as I try to live with our new cat, I'm struck by horrible thoughts about allergies, like: is it true that allergies are essentially a flawed immune responses? are allergies increasing in this population? are allergies as common in foreign coutries? is it possible to have evidence about the prevalence of allergies going back even twenty years, let alone twenty generations? I have heard it suggested that in the modern age our immune systems are deteriorating in general, and that this is not apparent because we've only known about immune systems for a few decades. Any thoughts? O----------------------------------------------------------------------> | Cliff Joslyn, Cybernetician at Large | Systems Science, SUNY Binghamton, vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu V All the world is biscuit shaped. . . -- O----------------------------------------------------------------------> | Cliff Joslyn, Cybernetician at Large | Systems Science, SUNY Binghamton, vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu V All the world is biscuit shaped. . .
heather@blia.BLI.COM (Heather Mackinnon) (04/28/88)
In article <1160@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu>, vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) writes: > > As spring settles in, and as I try to live with our new cat, I'm struck > by horrible thoughts about allergies, like: is it true that allergies > are essentially a flawed immune responses? are allergies increasing in > this population? are allergies as common in foreign coutries? is it > possible to have evidence about the prevalence of allergies going back > even twenty years, let alone twenty generations? Allergies are the effect of an overzealous immune system. Allergic reactions are identical to the immune response against flatworms. Worm infestations still are the number one cause of death worldwide. It is possible that allergies were originally adaptive in preventing worm infestations. It's interesting that worm infestations are not very common in the U.S. This is not because we have better sanitation or better medical care but simply because there are comparatively few virulent worm parasites in North America. It is well known that human infants who are fed ANYTHING but mother's milk for the first six months of life are much more prone to allergies. Also, infants under 2 years of age who are fed cow's milk or eggs are more likely to develop allergies than other infants. The La Leche League book "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" has summaries of many studies which have been done on infant formula and infant health and also information on the immunological benefits of breastmilk for the human infant. It has been common practice during the past 50 years to feed infants infant formulas, to introduce solids at 6 weeks of age and to feed infants large quantities of cow's milk and eggs, often in the form of infant formulas. > I have heard it suggested that in the modern age our immune systems are > deteriorating in general, and that this is not apparent because we've > only known about immune systems for a few decades. Any thoughts? A hundred years ago, vaccines were nonexistent, antibiotics had not been discovered and sanitary practice was atrocious. People, particularly children, died like flies of infections. People lived in dread of diptheria, smallpox, scarlet fever, typhoid, cholera, pneumonia, tuberculosis and many other diseases that we have essentially eradicated. Our immune systems were designed to deal with the very real threats we have evolved with. Many of the immune disorders that humans suffer from are the result of overactive immune systems rather than deteriorating immune systems. While we're on the subject, I don't believe that AIDS is a new disease. A person with AIDS in the last century would have died of pneumonia or some other "wasting sickness". End of story from the nineteenth century point of view. I've tried to keep this short. I'm very skeptical of claims that human health or human immunity is on the downgrade. There are definitely areas in which human health could improve. By all means, we should work to improve them. But let's steer clear of gross generalizations that pit modern humans against people who have long been dead and can't defend themselves. References dug up upon request, Heather Mackinnon
saj@chinet.UUCP (Stephen Jacobs) (04/30/88)
Cliff Joslyn wondered in type whether the perception that allergies are more common now than in former generations has any basis. I'd like to stir that up a bit more. There's been speculation for some time about how humans come to have subtantial amounts of immune system seemingly devoted to making us miser- able (ie allergy). One suggestion was that these mechanisms are especially useful in combatting infection with multicellular parasites (worms, flukes, etc) Along with this it has been suggested that modern sanitation, by protecting us from such parasites, has allowed that portion of the immune system to lapse into a state where malfunctions are common. Just an idea, and someone else's, at that
saj@chinet.UUCP (Stephen Jacobs) (04/30/88)
In the course of an interesting note on allergies, Heather Mackinnon offered the opinion that AIDS is not a 'new' disease, since until relatively recent- ly, its victims would simply have been said to have wasted away. This ignores the very aspect of AIDS which caused it to be recognized in the US: Kaposi's sarcoma. This disease is relatively spectacular, accompanied as it is by skin discolorations. Until recently, it was considered a disease of men over sixty years of age. Now it isn't. HIV has been infecting people for at least a few generations(based on genetic distance from most related known animal viruses) AIDS is new. Whatever new means.
morimoto@intvax.UUCP (Alan Morimoto) (05/02/88)
From article <1160@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu>, by vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn): > As spring settles in, and as I try to live with our new cat, I'm struck > by horrible thoughts about allergies, like: is it true that allergies > are essentially a flawed immune responses? are allergies increasing in > this population? are allergies as common in foreign coutries? is it > possible to have evidence about the prevalence of allergies going back > even twenty years, let alone twenty generations? > I have heard it suggested that in the modern age our immune systems are > deteriorating in general, and that this is not apparent because we've > only known about immune systems for a few decades. Any thoughts? Hey Cliff, I have heard entirely the opposite. I have heard from my allergist that the reason we have allergies is because of our modern age. In other words . . . Back in the dawn of times, allergies were pretty much non-existent. We have only recently started developing allergies. The reasons I have been given are the following. We, in our previous lives, have had worms and parasites in our intestines that our immune system had to fight off busily. Nowadays, we have no worms in our intestines so our immune system attacks any other foreign invader. . . Enter the pollens. Now, you say what is their basis for such a hypothesis. The answer is in the people who live in third world countries. Look at people who live in backward rural areas that have worms and parasites. You will find that they do not have allergies. So there you have it. So if you want to stop your allergies give your immune system something to work on besides pollen. I doubt seriously that you or I would exchange an infection or a case of intestinal parasites for our allergies! >alan