rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) (03/09/91)
The other day in a workshop on Bhuddism, I heard that lsd can cause manic-deppression[bi-polar personality]. Because of my lack of faith in the people who told me this, I'm wondering if anyone out there has any scientific insight into this matter, I mean real results from real experiments. No anecdotal evidence please. Thanx in advance, Rob "Money is not our God" Knapp "...And Then the world will be as one." - John Lennon "... The problem is you, so whacha gonna do?" - The Sex Pistols "... The stars seem very different today." - David Bowie LEGALIZE [MNIBG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]
dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (03/09/91)
In article <Mbpy=CK00VpIAdvElK@andrew.cmu.edu> rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) writes: >The other day in a workshop on Bhuddism, I heard that lsd can cause >manic-deppression[bi-polar personality]. Because of my lack of faith in >the people who told me this, I'm wondering if anyone out there has any >scientific insight into this matter, I mean real results from real >experiments. No anecdotal evidence please. What do you mean by "real experiments"? C'mon. This is what can be said fairly reliably. LSD can precipitate psychoses in already unstable or predisposed individuals, but the great majority of people who have experimented with the drug short-term do not demonstrate any evidence of mental illness. I haven't come across any studies which would indicate that it causes bipolar disorder or unipolar depression. That is, this is not a syndrome which comes to mind when the term "LSD" is mentioned. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer dyer@arktouros.mit.edu, dyer@hstbme.mit.edu
honig@ics.uci.edu (David Honig) (03/11/91)
In article <Mbpy=CK00VpIAdvElK@andrew.cmu.edu> rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) writes: >The other day in a workshop on Bhuddism, I heard that lsd can cause >manic-deppression[bi-polar personality]. Because of my lack of faith in >the people who told me this, I'm wondering if anyone out there has any >scientific insight into this matter, I mean real results from real >experiments. No anecdotal evidence please. LSD can't *cause* an organic psychiatric condition like being a bipolar, but it might *trigger* a nasty episode. Also, people with organic conditions (eg, hyperactivity, history of psychosis, schizophrenia) may be especially sensitive (I've known a few, and they are, sorry this is anecdotal) to such drugs. I would take what a lecturer on buddism says about psychopharmacology with a grain of salt, esp since he might have a hidden agenda, eg, chemicals have hazards but my philosophy doesn't.... -- David A. Honig Quotas are for files, not people.
shl@ais.org (Stephen Landman) (03/11/91)
In article <Mbpy=CK00VpIAdvElK@andrew.cmu.edu> rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) writes: >The other day in a workshop on Bhuddism, I heard that lsd can cause >manic-deppression[bi-polar personality]. Because of my lack of faith in >the people who told me this, I'm wondering if anyone out there has any >scientific insight into this matter, I mean real results from real >experiments. No anecdotal evidence please. > >Thanx in advance, There is a large literature attesting to psychotic reactions to LSD use, as is easily shown with a quick Psychinfo Database search, but the search I just did shows NO articles relating Bipolar Affective Disorder (Manic-Depression) to LSD use. Also there is no apparent logical reason to relate Bipolar Disorder with LSD or any other psychoactive drug. Here is one study of a great many on the subject: AUTHOR: Cohen, Sidney AUTHOR AFFILIATION: U California School of Medicine, Neuropsychiatric Inst, Los Angeles TITLE: LSD: The varieties of psychotic experience. SOURCE: Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 1985 Oct-Dec Vol 17(4) 291-296 ABSTRACT: Discusses the contributing factors (e.g., preexisting character structure, insecurity, negative experience, current mood and stress level) and prevention and treatment of acute and prolonged psychotic reactions to LSD. (10 ref) -- Stephen Landman | Preferred - Internet: shl@ais.org P.O. Box 6053 | Ann Arbor, MI 48106 | Second chance - Internet: SLANDMAN@MCIMail.com
bmb@bluemoon.uucp (Bryan Bankhead) (03/12/91)
rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) writes: > The other day in a workshop on Bhuddism, I heard that lsd can cause > manic-deppression[bi-polar personality]. Because of my lack of faith in > the people who told me this, I'm wondering if anyone out there has any > scientific insight into this matter, I mean real results from real > experiments. No anecdotal evidence please. There is no evidence that LSD is capable of causing such a personality change. Although your emotions can get on a bit of a rollercoaster while it's active, none of these changes is permanent. This knowledge comes from controlled tests using standard personality measurements.
den0@quads.uchicago.edu (funky chicken) (03/13/91)
In article <RNeoy1w163w@bluemoon.uucp> bmb@bluemoon.uucp (Bryan Bankhead) writes: >There is no evidence that LSD is capable of causing such a personality >change. Although your emotions can get on a bit of a rollercoaster while >it's active, none of these changes is permanent. This knowledge comes from >controlled tests using standard personality measurements. This is worded too dogmatically. As I understand it, you are right that there is "no evidence that LSD is capable of CAUSING such a personality change;" causality is difficult to prove. However, there have been a fair amount of cases in which people being treated as psychotics have been found to have used LSD before their psychotic symptoms manifested. This disorder is symptomatologically indistinguishable from real schizophrenia. This is in contrast to PCP-induced psychosis which can be distinguished from schizophrenia in a variety of ways. Thus, LSD patients and schizophrenics have statistically equivalent numbers of subsequent rehospitalizations, and perform equivalently on cognitive exams at initial hospitalization and in follow ups a few years later. Because the "LSD psychosis" is not distinguishable from non-drug- induced psychosis, we have reasonable evidence to conclude that LSD was not the sole cause of psychosis. Instead, it would seem that the drug brought on the problems in vulnerable individuals. Interestingly, the rate of parental alcoholism was found to be much higher in LSD patients than in other patients or in the general population by one study (Vardy and Kay, Arch-Gen-Psych, 1983 40(8): 877-83). "LSD psychosis" is poor choice of words, I realize. --Matt Funkchick
denbeste@spdcc.COM (Steven Den Beste) (03/13/91)
In article <1991Mar12.190627.23104@midway.uchicago.edu> den0@quads.uchicago.edu (funky chicken) writes: <In article <RNeoy1w163w@bluemoon.uucp> bmb@bluemoon.uucp (Bryan Bankhead) <writes: < <>There is no evidence that LSD is capable of causing such a personality <>change. Although your emotions can get on a bit of a rollercoaster while <>it's active, none of these changes is permanent. This knowledge comes from <>controlled tests using standard personality measurements. < <This is worded too dogmatically. As I understand it, you are right that there <is "no evidence that LSD is capable of CAUSING such a personality change;" <causality is difficult to prove. However, there have been a fair amount <of cases in which people being treated as psychotics have been found to <have used LSD before their psychotic symptoms manifested. And a lot of them have eaten French Fries, too. Do French Fries cause bipolar affective disorder? By the way, the term "psychosis" is in disrepute now, since attempting to group depressives, bipolars and schizophrenics together doesn't make sense. < This disorder <is symptomatologically indistinguishable from real schizophrenia. I hope by this you are referring to LSD-intoxication being indistinguishable from schizophrenia, since bipolar affective disorder bears no resemblance at all to schizophrenia. (Indeed, bipolar disorder is often difficult to diagnose because the victims learn to compensate, in effect to "pass", without even knowing that they are doing it.)
jls@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim Showalter) (03/17/91)
>causality is difficult to prove. No shit. So difficult, in fact, that you completely fail to prove it in the rest of your post. To wit: >However, there have been a fair amount >of cases in which people being treated as psychotics have been found to >have used LSD before their psychotic symptoms manifested. And, I bet, there are a "fair amount" of cases in which people being treated as psychotics have been found NOT to have used LSD before their psychotic symptoms manifested. Further, there are probably a fair amount of cases in which psychotics were found to have used Crest toothpaste before their symptoms manifested. And mayonnaise. And red meat. Here, I believe, is your syllogism: a) Some psycotics ingest LSD sometime prior to going nuts. b) Therefore, LSD makes people psychotic. This is clearly hoohah, so may I propose the following rephrasing, that, while certainly less dramatic, is also far more accurate: a) Psychotics go nuts. b) Some psychotics ingest LSD. c) A+B are unrelated to one another. -- ***** DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed herein are my own. Duh. Like you'd ever be able to find a company (or, for that matter, very many people) with opinions like mine. -- "When I want your opinion, I'll read it in your entrails."