olson@cs.rochester.edu (Thomas J. Olson) (03/24/88)
In article <1454@csib.csi.UUCP> jwhitnel@csib.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) writes: >..................Anyone who wants to understand what the suit is really >about should first read the complaint (which some posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc) >and then get ahold of the March 22, 1988 issue of MacintoshToday. On the >front page is a pair of pictures, one of the Apple Macintosh DeskTop, the >other is of NewWave by HP running under Microsoft Windows. One can see >from the pictures that New Wave is derived from Apple's Finder. Some >obvious ripoffs are the icons used for directories (file folders with >tags), documents (a page with the corner folded) and the notorious trash >can (called a Waste Basket in New Wave, but it even has the same lid that >Apple's trash can does). Pardon my obtuseness, but was the above posting tongue in cheek? If not: I've never used a Mac in anger, but I've used the Star environment on a Xerox Dandelion. It was some years ago, but... I well remember the grey file drawer that represented the network file server... from which you could extract tagged file folders, aka subdirectories... from which you could extract pages with a folded corner, aka documents... Star didn't have a trash can, though its successor (Viewpoint) does. Like most Star features, the trash can comes from Smalltalk. Oh, how I yearn to see Apple sue Xerox over that trash can! /* begin snide remark */ Come to think of it, Star even had the wimpy non-preemptive scheduler and lack of memory protection that the Mac made famous. /* end snide remark */ Now, it's true that when I used Star the Mac had been out for 2 years or so. Knowing Xerox' corporate culture, though, I can't picture them leaping quickly to appropriate a clever idea from some small operation in Cupertino. Therefor, I assume these ideas were indigenous. What really burns me up about this whole deal is that I was nerving myself for the hideous expense of buying a Mac 2. Now I can't -- my morals are flexible, but not THAT flexible. --Tom Olson (olson@cs.rochester.edu) > >Jerry Whitnell Been through Hell? >Communication Solutions, Inc. What did you bring back for me? > - A. Brilliant PS I really like that .signature quote. Who's A. Brilliant?
demers@beowulf.ucsd.edu (David E Demers) (03/24/88)
In article <7987@sol.ARPA> olson@cs.rochester.edu (Thomas J. Olson) writes: >> >>Jerry Whitnell Been through Hell? >>Communication Solutions, Inc. What did you bring back for me? >> - A. Brilliant > >PS I really like that .signature quote. Who's A. Brilliant? WHO'S A. BRILLIANT? Ashleigh Brilliant, producer of "pot shots" and author of books and books of pithy sayings, including the oft-swiped "I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent." He is a resident of Northern California, I believe. His work is prolific and includes many items which cause one to say "Gee, I wish I'd said that". Not to be confused with deep philosophy or analysis of issues... Dave DeMers <.signature file? where did I put it this time?>
jwhitnel@csi.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) (03/25/88)
In article <4795@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU> demers@beowulf.UUCP (David E Demers) writes: >WHO'S A. BRILLIANT? Ashleigh Brilliant, producer of "pot shots" >and author of books and books of pithy sayings, including the >oft-swiped "I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent." > >He is a resident of Northern California, I believe. Santa Barbara, last I checked. Of course from San Diego, that may very well be Northern California :-). Pot Shots, for those of you who havn't seen them, are post cards with one saying and a small drawing. Very useful for when you have a point to get across :-). >Dave DeMers <.signature file? where did I put it this time?> Jerry Whitnell Been through Hell? Communication Solutions, Inc. What did you bring back for me? - A. Brilliant
laba-4an@web6e.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) (03/26/88)
In article <1457@csib.csi.UUCP> jwhitnel@csib.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) writes: >well be Northern California :-). Pot Shots, for those of you who havn't >seen them, are post cards with one saying and a small drawing. Very >useful for when you have a point to get across :-). > >Jerry Whitnell Been through Hell? Time to be stupid. What the hell does ":-)" mean, anyway? I keep seeing it pop up everywhere, and I have no clue... -- "The only stupid question...is the one that EVERYBODY already knows"
alan@pdn.UUCP (Alan Lovejoy) (03/28/88)
In article <7987@sol.ARPA> olson@cs.rochester.edu (Thomas J. Olson) writes: >Star didn't have a trash can, though its successor (Viewpoint) does. Like most >Star features, the trash can comes from Smalltalk. Oh, how I yearn to see >Apple sue Xerox over that trash can! Have you ever used Smalltalk? From your comments I assume the answer is no. First of all, there is no trashcan in Smalltalk. Secondly, the Smalltalk "desktop" is different from the Mac desktop in almost every detail except that both are windowing systems with mice, icons and black-on-white video. Thirdly, Apple paid Xerox for the technology. So even if Xerox did sue Apple, the suit would be very unlikely to succeed. Fourth, Apple cannot and does not claim the rights to all trashcan icons. People have drawn pictures of trashcans for quite a while, so that's effectively in the public domain. What is not in the public domain is anything too closely approximating a pixel-for-pixel copy of Apple's trashcan used as an icon in a windowing system with significant resemblance to Apple's. >/* begin snide remark */ >Come to think of it, Star even had the wimpy non-preemptive scheduler >and lack of memory protection that the Mac made famous. >/* end snide remark */ Meaning...? >Now, it's true that when I used Star the Mac had been out for 2 years or >so. Knowing Xerox' corporate culture, though, I can't picture them >leaping quickly to appropriate a clever idea from some small operation >in Cupertino. Therefor, I assume these ideas were indigenous. And the Lisa had been out for three years by that time. And work on it would have been going on internally at Apple for at least two years before that. Compared to Xerox's 1981 technology, Apple had made some quite significant contributions by 1986. What ideas may be indigenous to Xerox is irrelevant: they aren't suing anyone, and no one is suing them. HP and MicroSoft are being sued for infringing on Apple's rights by stealing Apple's intellectual property. If Xerox wants to sue HP and MicroSoft for the same thing, that's their right. To hold that Apple made no original, significant contributions to their interface beyond what they PURCHASED from Xerox is ludicrous. >What really burns me up about this whole deal is that I was nerving myself >for the hideous expense of buying a Mac 2. Now I can't -- my morals >are flexible, but not THAT flexible. Are you saying you're mad at Apple because they made you so mad that you can't waste your money on their overpriced box any more? That reasoning is about as twisted as your ideas on ownership of intellectual property, so I guess no one should be too surprised. --alan@pdn