tbetz@dasys1.UUCP (Tom Betz) (09/15/88)
In the process of trying to sort out the SEA vs. PK situation,
Thom Henderson posted this statement on Magpie HQ (212) 420-0527.
I thought that folks here might be interested in it as well.
A little more information amidst all the noise...
------------------------- cut here --------------------------
From THOM HENDERSON Msg #25928 *COMPUTERS* (Rcvd)
To STEVE MANES Wed Sep 14, 1988 4:51am (0:19)
-----------------------------------------------------------
SEA Policy Statement on ARC Trademark and Copyrights
Many of our users have expressed concern regarding use of the ARC trademark
and copyrights. To better meet their needs we have formulated this Statement
of Policy, effective as of September 13, 1988. This policy applies to anyone
who does not already have an agreement with us.
In the interest of serving the needs of the bulletin board community and
supporting the shareware concept, we pledge to:
o Maintain the ARC file format as a stable industry standard.
o Continue to upgrade ARC for speed and efficiency.
o Continue to distribute ARC as a shareware product, and continue to
allow for its free non-commercial use.
Futhermore, we pledge to foster the ingenuity and creativity of our fellow
shareware authors, whom we are happy to support in virtually every manner.
ARC
To protect the rights of our shareware licensees, ARC may be freely copied and
distributed subject to the following conditions:
1) No fee may be charged for such copying and distribution.
2) ARC may only be distributed in its original, unmodified state.
3) ARC may not be distributed, in whole or in part, as part of any
commercial product or service without the express written
permission of SEA.
4) ARC may be made available for download by pay bulletin boards and
similar commercial services provided that no additional fee is
charged specifically for downloading ARC.
ARC TRADEMARK
Use of the ARC trademark may be licensed subject to the following terms:
1) Any use of the ARC trademark means that the product is SHAREWARE.
We need a fully functional copy of the latest version with
documentation to make available on our BBS for general download.
2) Your product must be compatible with the current version of ARC
from SEA, and must be of an acceptable level of quality and
workmanship.
3) We must have your name and address so that we can keep you
informed on any changes to ARC.
4) As the legal owner of the ARC trademark, we are bound by US
trademark laws to protect and maintain the integrity of ARC in any
program that uses the ARC trademark . To comply with this, we
must ask for fully commented source code. We will keep your
source code completely confidential if you so desire, and we will
not make use of any of your source code in any of our products
without your express, written permission.
ARC SOURCE CODE
The ARC program sources have always been available for informational purposes.
They may be used freely in the creation of shareware utilities that examine
the contents of an ARC format archive. Any other use of the ARC source code
is subject to the following terms and conditions:
1) Your product must be SHAREWARE. We need a fully functional copy
of the latest version with documentation to make available on our
BBS for general download.
2) The first $100,000 worth of revenues is yours to keep. We want
6.5% of any revenue above that in return for the use of our code.
3) For the protection of our users, your product may not produce ARC
format archives which are incompatiable with our current version
of ARC.
ARC FILE FORMAT
1) We hereby grant to the entire world and all sentient creatures in
the universe who do not already have an agreement with us to the
contrary a perpetual, unlimited, galaxy wide license to read,
extract, create, or otherwise manipulate ARC format archives.
This does not include any license to use our sources or
trademarks.
2) If you make any changes to the format such that your file is not
compatible with the current version of ARC, then the result may
not be referred to as an ARC format Archive.
We feel that this Policy Statement is a fair and workable answer to all
concerned with ARC format archives, developers and users alike. If any
developer is unable to comply with these terms, please contact us at (201)
473-5153 to discuss alternative arrangements.
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Now, the most interesting part of this (to me) is the following,
emphasis mine:
1) We hereby grant to the entire world and all sentient creatures in
the universe WHO DO NOT ALREADY HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH US TO THE
CONTRARY a perpetual, unlimited, galaxy wide license to read,
extract, create, or otherwise manipulate ARC format archives.
This does not include any license to use our sources or
trademarks.
This seems to me to mean, considering what has already been posted here,
that everyone in the known universe EXCEPT Phil Katz is permitted to write
and use any program that manipulates SEA-ARC-format files. This would
seem also to mean that he may not write and distribute a program that
converts SEA-ARC-format files to whatever his new file format may be, and
he and he alone in the universe is singularly so excluded!
Wow!! Talk about spite... I hope I'm wrong in this reading. Any legal
eagles who have read what has gone before who can confirm/deny this?
Could this kind of exclusion hold up in court?
I'm continuing to ask Thom for clarification in other matters (having
presented him with what has gone before here, which he seems not to have
seen until this morning) and will pass along whatever he tells us.
--
"But Mister Swann, this is for ladies!!!" |Tom Betz
<zzzzzzzzZIP!> |ZCNY, Yonkers, NY 10701-2509
"So is this, marm, but every so often |UUCP: tbetz@dasys1.UUCP or
I must run a little water through it." | ...!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!tbetzjamesd@qiclab.UUCP (James Deibele) (09/19/88)
In article <6458@dasys1.UUCP> tbetz@dasys1.UUCP (Tom Betz) writes: >In the process of trying to sort out the SEA vs. PK situation, >Thom Henderson posted this statement on Magpie HQ (212) 420-0527. [...] There is an active "boycott SEA" movement both on usenet and FidoNet <tm>, which undoubtedly cost SEA money and will cost them more in the future. SEA spent $40,000 in legal costs laying the groundwork to take PKware to court, money which they might have lost. SEA offered to license PKware for "non-commercial" (i.e. shareware), but PKware turned it down. If you were being called an asshole across the world, wouldn't you feel spite towards the people that lead to that? Particularly if you were right? The complete text of the communication between PKware and SEA that was filed in the appropriate court was typed in by someone who favored PKware. After reading the letters between attorneys, I favor SEA. And that, boys and girls, is why we have courts. It's interesting to me that PKware was able to cough up $62,500 ($40,000 in legal fees, $22,500 in damages) to pay to SEA to settle the case out of court. The text is available upon request, if there's enough interest, I'll post (it probably runs 20K or more). -- James S. Deibele jamesd@qiclab or jamesd@percival TECHBooks: The Computer Book Specialists (800) TECH-BKS 3646 SE Division Portland, OR 97202 (503) 238-1005 TECHBooks One BBS (#1:105/4.0); 3/12/24 (503) 760-1473
rlb@xanth.cs.odu.edu (Robert Lee Bailey) (09/22/88)
Yes, please post the documents!
gmat@wuibc.UUCP (Gregory Martin Amaya Tormo) (09/22/88)
You may want to direct your attention to COMP.ORG.FIDONET in two weeks for a special dedicated FIDONEWS issue on the PKWARE/SEA situation. Articles from both P.K. and T.H. will be in it, as well as any and all submissions to the FIDONEWS editor. If you write an article in standard text and either post it to FIDONEWS via fido (ask your sysop how), or post it to COMP.ORG.FIDONET with the request to Tim Pozar that it be forwarded to FIDONEWS, I am sure he would not mind (I have not asked him). We should bear in mind that both sides have good points in some areas, and that both have made mistakes in other areas. My personal opinion is that we should develope translational programs (not based on any copyrighted source) between PKPAK, ARC, and ZOO. David Deitch
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (09/23/88)
>The text is available upon request, if there's enough >interest, I'll post (it probably runs 20K or more). >James S. Deibele jamesd@qiclab or jamesd@percival By all means, please post..! This is an interesting case, and one which may influence the course of other "shareware" situations in the future... BobR
pozar@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Pozar) (09/26/88)
In article <282@wuibc.UUCP> gmat@wuibc.UUCP (Gregory Martin Amaya Tormo) writes: > > You may want to direct your attention to COMP.ORG.FIDONET in two >weeks for a special dedicated FIDONEWS issue on the PKWARE/SEA situation. >Articles from both P.K. and T.H. will be in it, as well as any and all >submissions to the FIDONEWS editor. If you write an article in standard >text and either post it to FIDONEWS via fido (ask your sysop how), or post >it to COMP.ORG.FIDONET with the request to Tim Pozar that it be forwarded to >FIDONEWS, I am sure he would not mind (I have not asked him). I would be happy to. Feel free to submit any opinions on this or any Fido or Computer (or for that matter, any thing else) topics. Tim -- ...sun!hoptoad!\ Tim Pozar >fidogate!pozar Fido: 1:125/406 ...lll-winken!/ PaBell: (415) 788-3904 USNail: KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108
frotz@drivax.UUCP (Frotz) (09/27/88)
In article <282@wuibc.UUCP> gmat@wuibc.UUCP (Gregory Martin Amaya Tormo) writes: >My personal opinion is that we should develop >translational programs (not based on any copyrighted source) between PKPAK, >ARC, and ZOO. > > David Deitch It seems to me that the Rahul's ATOZ program model is the one to think about. (Thanks for thinking of this Rahul!) ATOZ supports moving any foriegn archive into zoo archive format. Those who feel that zoo is not the best archiver (personal bias showing through here;-) should request that the archive author of choice create a utility to make archive porting easier on the rest of the world. I am not suggesting that you should bother Rahul about source to ATOZ (not sure it's available). I am suggesting that you email Phil Katz, Tom Henderson, and all of the others about creating a similar utility. #include <std_disclaimer.h> /* "I'm just a zoo fanatic!" */ --Frotz @Digital Research, Incorporated amdahl!drivax!frotz 70 Garden Court, B15 (408) 649-3896 Monterey, California 93940 Ask for John Fa'atuai
truett@cup.portal.com (10/05/88)
The statement by Mr. Henderson is interesting for several reasons:
(1) It carefully avoids speaking to the issue of whether the use of "ARC"
as a file extension is considered to be a violation of trademark rights.
In light of the limited name space allowed by the DOS standard, such a
claim is, at best, galling and, at worst, either unconscionable or
maybe even unethical if one purports to be encouraging a standard.
(2) It is interesting that Thom promises that licensed shareware authors will
receive notice of "any changes in ARC". One presumes this is a perpetual
promise. (Maybe the entire world should send in a piece of source to be
licensed so that he can't afford to update "ARC" because the mailing cost
would ruin him and SEA!)
(3) Henderson seems to be trying to sound real nice and friendly. Yet his hire
expert (John Navas) continues to publicly refer to the programs that
were distributed by Phil Katz as "trojans", a term that is generally
considered quite perjorative. I would hope the Mr. Henderson does not
share an enthusiasm for such vicious terminology. It would be nice to
see Mr. Henderson publicly condemn such vitriolic statements by those
in his employ.
It seems to be agreed here in Silicon Valley that Mr. Katz probably could
be considered to have "stolen" some of SEA's code, though there are some
questions even about this. Some correspondents on this network state that
Katz' source was in assembler. Yet Mr. Navas states that his source was so
similar to SEA's C source that you could see where the comments had been
erased to remove reference to SEA. Question: Is it possible to erase the
comments from C source and magically get assembler source as the result?
Finally, I will just note that the name SEA is itself confusing, since full
page ads regularly appear in several publications for Software Engineers of
America (Lace Success, NY) who also use SEA as a corporate trademark. It
has confused me numerous times.
Truett Lee Smith, Ph.D., Sunnyvale, CA
UUCP: truett@cup.portal.com