[misc.misc] Unix box for $10 a month! Is this a scam?

scott@boake2.UUCP (Scott Boake) (10/16/86)

I recently received the following in the mail.  I have NO connection with
any of the people affiliated with this group.  I don't know any more about
it that I have in this letter.  I'm just posting it to see what comments
other USENETers have about it.


---------------------COPY OF A LETTER RECEIVED VIA US MAIL---------------------

                    TO ALL CONCERNED:

    With the letter comes an invitation to join the first
computer group of its kind.  Introducing a national user's group,
committed to bringing you what no other group as offered before.

    The Mega-Users' Group is currently campaigning to increase
its membership to 100,000.  With this kind of unity will come a
very special buying power - a power that will entitle you, as a
member, to the following:  one of the most powerful openframe
computer systems available, with a 68020 CPU card or a 80386 CPU
card - a powerful, multi-user system, supporting UNIX or XENIX on
your choice of Multibus or S-100.

    Your membership fee of $10 per month covers the entire
system as follows:

- one Motorola 68020 CPU or Intel 80386 CPU, running at 12 Mhz
- one megabye of D-RAM expandable to 8 meg. on the card
- one floppy disk contoller capable of controlling 4 8" drives
and 4 5 1/4" drives
- one I/O card with 8 serial ports and 2 parallel
- one 300-watt power supply
- one 5 1/4" floppy drive and one 8" floppy drive
- for S-100 users: choice of 10 or 20 slot backplane
- for Multibus users: choice of 4 or 11 slot backplane

    These systems will be complete and ready to run.  Your
choice of desktop or rack-mount enclosure.

    The above is simply your basic system, yours for having the
foresight to join the Mega-Users' Group now, before membership is
closed at the 100,000 mark.  That's right - this offer is limited
to the first 100,000 members to join.

    The only membership requirement is that you remain a member
through the time your system is shipped to you.  Our analysts
project that we will reach our base of 100,000 members in 4-6
months.  But once you've received your system, it's likely that
you will choose to remain a member indefinitely, as each month
will bring an additional piece of hardware or a software kit.
Offerings such as: additional memory cards, color graphics cards,
clock cards - and much more.  All included in your $10/month
membership fee.

    While you await shipment of your system, The Mega-Users'
Group will send you its monthly newsletter.  Each issue will
update you on the membership drive.  Also included will be
software listings - over 300,000 public domain software titles
will be available to you, as a member, at no charge.  Our
in-house engineers are working on a program that will emulate
CP/M and MS-DOS at blinding speeds - and be graphic compatible,
also.

    Soon, our members will be able to tie into a mainframe
computer, complete with one hundred phone lines.  It will house
the majority of our public-domain software, and allow our members
a way to interact with each other, as there is not connect fee,
hourly fee, or limitation on connect time.  Users can stay on as
long as they wish - for free.

    The Mega-Users' Group is an idea whose time has come.  With
your support, we intend to revolutionize the computer-buying
industry.  Power in numbers will allow us to send you a Multibus
or S-100 system at no real cost to you: your $10 monthly
membership fee is all-inclusive.

    Shock-waves have begun to travel throughout the industry
regarding this ooffer.  The reality is that computer boards can be
produced cheaply in quantity.  Until now, no one has passed the
savings on to you, the user.

    We have invested over $20,000 in the initial phase, just to
bring this concept to you now.

    We urge you to join the Mega-Users' Group today.  Those who
join first will take early shipment of their systems - it is a
first-come, first-served basis.

    Remember: the sooner your membership reaches the 100,000
mark, the better for you.  Therefore, we encourage you to
circulate news of the Mega-Users' Group to all those interested
in owning an S-100 or Multibus system for a small monthly fee.
You may distribute your own copies of this letter and the
enrollment form, for purposes of building the membership of the
Mega-Users' Group to 100,000.  Or contact us for additional
copies.

    The time for this idea is now.  Call us directly for more
details.  But please, don't hesitate.  We'd hate to inform you
that our membership had reached 100,000 without you.

    We encourage all users' group presidents and other
interested parties to call us at (203) 634 - 4593, 9AM to 5PM
Eastern, Monday thru Friday.

**Motorola is a trademark of Motorola Semi-conductor Products,
Inc.
**Intel is a trademark of Intel Corp.
**Unix is a trademark of Bell Laboratories

                    ENROLLMENT FORM

    Yes - I want to join the Mega-Users' Group.  Enclosed please
find my check of money order in the amount of $__________, for
_______month(s) membership.  I understand that as the membership
reaches 100,000, I will receive my choice of the Multibus or
S-100 system describem above.

    Check desired system:    S-100 - please specify 10 or 20
slot backplane.  __ten-slot     __20-slot

    Check desired system:    Multibus - please specity 4 or 11
slot backplane.  __4-slot       __11-slot

    Specify rack-mount or desk-top enclosure:  __rack  __desk-
top

PLEASE PRINT

    NAME ___________________________________
    ADDRESS ________________________________
    CITY,STATE,ZIP__________________________
    PHONE__________________
    INITIAL________________

SEND TO:
    The Mega-Users' Group
    P.O. Box 4213
    Yalesville Station, CT 06492



---------------------COPY OF A LETTER RECEIVED VIA US MAIL---------------------

As I said before, I'm not connected in anyway to this group.  I would just like
to get some feed back from people about this deal.  If you decide to call them
post a message as to what you find out.


Scott Boake                                           Small Systems Consulting
(813) 544 - 8152                                      Suite A
                                                      4669 - 73rd Ave North
..!akgua!usfvax2!jc3b21!boake2!scott                  Pinellas Park, FL 33565
- or -
..!akgua!akguc!codas!peora!ucf-cs!usfvax2!jc3b21!boake2!scott

dan@rna.UUCP (Dan Ts'o) (10/17/86)

In article <230@boake2.UUCP> scott@boake2.UUCP (Scott Boake) writes:
>...
>    The Mega-Users' Group is currently campaigning to increase
>its membership to 100,000.  With this kind of unity will come a
>very special buying power - a power that will entitle you, as a
>member, to the following:  one of the most powerful openframe
>computer systems available, with a 68020 CPU card or a 80386 CPU
>card - a powerful, multi-user system, supporting UNIX or XENIX on
>your choice of Multibus or S-100.
>
>    Your membership fee of $10 per month covers the entire
>system as follows:
>
>- one Motorola 68020 CPU or Intel 80386 CPU, running at 12 Mhz
>- one megabye of D-RAM expandable to 8 meg. on the card
>- one floppy disk contoller capable of controlling 4 8" drives
>and 4 5 1/4" drives
>- one I/O card with 8 serial ports and 2 parallel
>- one 300-watt power supply
>- one 5 1/4" floppy drive and one 8" floppy drive
>- for S-100 users: choice of 10 or 20 slot backplane
>- for Multibus users: choice of 4 or 11 slot backplane

	No hard disk, eh ? That's trouble already. Also doesn't mention
that it includes software (that works).
>
>    The only membership requirement is that you remain a member
>through the time your system is shipped to you.  Our analysts
>project that we will reach our base of 100,000 members in 4-6
>months.

	Here's is what worries me. What if it takes them ten years
to reach 100,000 members ? What if it takes them three years to
decide they'll never make 100,000 ? What if they get 90,000 members -
what incentive do they have for getting the last 10,000 members ? Because...
>
>    We have invested over $20,000 in the initial phase, just to
>bring this concept to you now.
>
	Big deal.
>
>    Yes - I want to join the Mega-Users' Group.  Enclosed please
>find my check of money order in the amount of $__________, for
>_______month(s) membership.  I understand that as the membership
>reaches 100,000, I will receive my choice of the Multibus or
>S-100 system describem above.

	...They will only ship the systems after they get 100,000 members.
They don't have to even purchase anything til they get
	100,000 members x $10/mo. x 12mos./year x N years.

anderson@uwmacc.UUCP (Jess Anderson) (10/17/86)

> In article <230@boake2.UUCP> scott@boake2.UUCP (Scott Boake) writes:
> >...
> >    The Mega-Users' Group is currently campaigning to increase
> >its membership to 100,000. [...]
> >
> >    Your membership fee of $10 per month covers the entire
> >system as follows:
> >  [lotsa good stuff!]
> >
> >    The only membership requirement is that you remain a member
> >through the time your system is shipped to you.  Our analysts
> >project that we will reach our base of 100,000 members in 4-6
> >months.
> 
> 	Here's is what worries me. What if it takes them ten years
> to reach 100,000 members ? What if it takes them three years to
> decide they'll never make 100,000 ? What if they get 90,000 members -
> what incentive do they have for getting the last 10,000 members ? Because...
> 
> 	...They will only ship the systems after they get 100,000 members.
> They don't have to even purchase anything til they get
> 	100,000 members x $10/mo. x 12mos./year x N years.

Very good analysis of the situation! No way to tell if these folks
would *ever* deliver *anything*, but let's assume they're basically
honest (taxes *my* credulity, but that's my problem); in that case,
pretty soon they're getting close to $1,000,000 a month plus earnings
on a whole lot of money. Their incentive *not* to deliver goes up and
up. I mean, I'm totally honest, right (aren't we all?), but I could
be bought to do *almost* anything for the earnings on a million a
month, not to mention the capital! :-) My guess is that some whiz-
bang financial type here on the net could do an interesting projection
on where these people would be in 4 < x < 18 months (other than easy
street). Sounds like a scam to me, but a clever one, I must admit.

-- 
==ARPA:====================anderson@unix.macc.wisc.edu===Jess Anderson======
|      (Please use ARPA if you can.)                     MACC              |
| UUCP: {harvard,seismo,topaz,                           1210 W. Dayton    | 
|    akgua,allegra,ihnp4,usbvax}!uwvax!uwmacc!anderson   Madison, WI 53706 |
| BITNET:                            anderson@wiscmacc   608/263-6988      |
==Words are not just blown air. They have a meaning.=====(Chuang Tsu)=======

larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (10/17/86)

In article <230@boake2.UUCP>, scott@boake2.UUCP (Scott Boake) writes:
> I recently received the following in the mail.
> ... 
>     The Mega-Users' Group is currently campaigning to increase
> its membership to 100,000.  With this kind of unity will come a
> very special buying power - a power that will entitle you, as a
> member, to the following:  one of the most powerful openframe
> computer systems available, with a 68020 CPU card or a 80386 CPU
> card - a powerful, multi-user system, supporting UNIX or XENIX on
> your choice of Multibus or S-100.
> 
>     Your membership fee of $10 per month covers the entire
> system as follows:
> - one Motorola 68020 CPU or Intel 80386 CPU, running at 12 Mhz
> ...
>     These systems will be complete and ready to run.  Your
> choice of desktop or rack-mount enclosure.
> ...
>     The only membership requirement is that you remain a member
> through the time your system is shipped to you.  Our analysts
> project that we will reach our base of 100,000 members in 4-6
> months.
> ...
>     While you await shipment of your system, The Mega-Users'
> Group will send you its monthly newsletter.  Each issue will

	I bet people will be waiting a LONG, LONG time!

>     Shock-waves have begun to travel throughout the industry
> regarding this offer.

	I bet!  Any company with the balls to try and scam UNIX users will
certainly create shock waves.

>     We have invested over $20,000 in the initial phase, just to
> bring this concept to you now.

	Wow!  A WHOLE $ 20K!

>     We encourage all users' group presidents and other
> interested parties to call us at (203) 634 - 4593, 9AM to 5PM
> Eastern, Monday thru Friday.

	I encourage all people receiving this solicitation in the mail to
contact the Postal Inspection Service of the U.S. Post office, since this
appears to be an attempt at fraud by use of the mail.

>                     ENROLLMENT FORM
>     Yes - I want to join the Mega-Users' Group.  Enclosed please
> find my check of money order in the amount of $__________, for
> _______month(s) membership.  I understand that as the membership
> reaches 100,000, I will receive my choice of the Multibus or
> S-100 system describem above.

	Notice that it never promises you WHEN the system will be delivered;
it only says "as the membership reaches 100,000".  What if the membership
NEVER reaches 100,000 in the first year?  Say, in the first ten years?  The
"Mega-Users' Group" can say something like: "Well, the membership is STILL
reaching 100,000 - so you'll have to wait..."
	While it may appear that the "Mega-Users' Group" has a legal "out"
in this solicitation, they could still well be prosecuted for fraud.  If
this alleged users group has not in fact done all of the preparation for
manufacturing and distributing these supposed computers _prior_ to making
the solicitation by mail, it could be established that they had no "intent"
to _ever_ manufacture and distribute the supposed product, thereby creating
an important element necessary for a fraud prosecution.  Such preparation
for manufacturing and distribution would cost >> more that the $ 20K that
they claim to have invested!
	I would hope that no member of the UNIX "community" is foolish enough
to fall for this scam.

==>  Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York
==>  UUCP:  {allegra|decvax|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry
==>  VOICE: 716/688-1231           {hplabs|ihnp4|seismo|utzoo}!/
==>  FAX:   716/741-9635 {G1,G2,G3}      "Have you hugged your cat today?" 

jrc@ritcv.UUCP (James R. Carbin) (10/18/86)

What strikes me rather quickly is that nothing is said if the 100,000
subscriber level is NOT achieved.     Hmmmmmm..........

j.r.    {allegra,seismo}!rochester!ritcv!jrc

grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (10/19/86)

In article <230@boake2.UUCP> scott@boake2.UUCP (Scott Boake) writes:
>I recently received the following in the mail.  I have NO connection with
>any of the people affiliated with this group.  I don't know any more about
>it that I have in this letter.  I'm just posting it to see what comments
>other USENETers have about it.
>
... omitted ...
>
>As I said before, I'm not connected in anyway to this group.  I would just like
>to get some feed back from people about this deal.  If you decide to call them
>post a message as to what you find out.
>Scott Boake

It sounds more than a bit fishy to me - your receiving anything for your $10
per month is completely contingent on their getting 100,000 other members.

Even with a sucker being born every minute, there just aren't that many
people out there who would be silly enough to commit money to this sort
of thing.  I'm not even sure there are 100,000 people who would buy one
of these systems outright.

Lots of other weasel wording there too.  Amuse yourself: take the letter back
to the post office, mention that it looks questionable and could they please
forward it to a postal inspector for review...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,	uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|caip}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing	arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV
Commodore, Engineering Department	fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)

fair@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Erik E. Fair) (10/19/86)

This smells like a Ponzi scheme to me...
Why not call the Better Business Bureau and ask?
Or perhaps the Postmaster of that Postal Service office?

	caveat emptor,

	Erik E. Fair	ucbvax!fair	fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu

plocher@puff.wisc.edu (John Plocher) (10/24/86)

In article <912@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes:
>In article <230@boake2.UUCP> scott@boake2.UUCP (Scott Boake) writes:
>>I recently received the following in the mail.  I have NO connection with
>>any of the people affiliated with this group.  
>>
>... omitted ...
>>
>>As I said before, I'm not connected in anyway to this group.
>Lots of other weasel wording there too.  Amuse yourself: take the letter back
>to the post office, mention that it looks questionable and could they please
>forward it to a postal inspector for review...
>

I called them up today - An answering service picked up the call:

them:  "Mega services, may I help you?"

me:    Is this the company offering a Unix Machine for $10.00 a month?

       "Yes, but I'm just answering the phone for the Mega Users group"

       I'd like info on their Buying Club offer.

       "I'm sorry, that program has been discontinued because of legal problems.
        If you leave your name and aderess, we can send you info on our other
        products."

       No thanx, bye.

-- 
"Never trust an idea you get sitting down" - Nietzche
------------	{harvard,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!uwhsms!plocher        (work)
John Plocher    {harvard,seismo}!uwvax!puff!plocher                 (school)
------------	decvax!encore!vaxine!spark!121!0!John_Plocher       (FidoNet)

btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) (10/26/86)

Has anybody heard of, or actually have one of the Symmetric 375 machines
from SYMMETRIC Computer Systems, San Jose?  I just got info from them today
from BYTE... what they offer seems incredible... it is a portable box with
a "750" inside running BSD 4.2 with all utilities... everybody's favorite
languages  f77, Pascal LISP PROLOG BASIC apl, and even C... it has half the
speed of a 750 (hence the name "375", a 50 meg Winchester drive... four
serial ports... AND, you can take it home at night!  They sell it for
$4995 (about $9000 with ethernet) and their number is:

		408 279 0700


			Brad Banko
			...!decvax!cwruecmp!ncoast!btb
			Cleveburg, Ohio
			"The heart of Rock n Roll"

-- 
Bradley T. Banko

frankr@oz.UUCP (Franklin Reynolds) (10/28/86)

In article <1637@ncoast.UUCP> btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) writes:
>Has anybody heard of, or actually have one of the Symmetric 375 machines
>from SYMMETRIC Computer Systems, San Jose?  

I am pretty sure I saw them at UNIXEXPO `85. At the time they were selling
their box for ~$10k. At the time it seemed like a pretty good deal. I didn't
spend a lot of time checking it out, but it seemed to run 4.2. I was 
impressed. $5k sounds like an excellent deal to me.

Franklin Reynolds
EnMasse Computer Corp.
decvax!linus!alliant!enmasse!frankr
seismo!harvard!rclex!enmasse!frankr

(The opinions expressed above are my own.)

paul@vixie.UUCP (Paul Vixie Esq) (10/30/86)

In article <1637@ncoast.UUCP> btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) writes:
>Has anybody heard of, or actually have one of the Symmetric 375 machines
>from SYMMETRIC Computer Systems, San Jose? [...] it is a portable box [...]
>running BSD 4.2 with all utilities... everybody's favorite languages (f77,
>Pascal LISP PROLOG BASIC apl, and even C)... it has half the speed of a 750,
>a 50 meg Winchester drive... four serial ports... AND, you can take it home
>at night!  They sell it for $4995 (~$9000 with ethernet) and their number is:
>
>		408 279 0700

Yes, I own one of these.  It is all it's advertised to be.  Useful options
are:

	replace 50Mb/45ms drive with an 86Mb/27ms:		~$1200
	scsi port:						~$850
	replace 800K floppy drive with cartidge tape drive:	~$600
	replace 2Mb RAM with 8Mb RAM:				~$2900

All prices from memory.  Call SYMMETRIC for exact details.

Although I have had some software problems with this machine, they have
evened out as of the latest release, and many were my own fault anyway.

I can reccommend the machine.

I don't work for SYMMETRIC.
-- 
Paul A. Vixie       arpa: paul@vixie.UUCP, nike!ptsfa!vixie!paul@seismo.CSS.GOV
San Mateo, Calif    uucp: {ptsfa,qantel,fortune,crash,winfree}!vixie!paul

bdale@winfree.UUCP (Bdale Garbee) (11/05/86)

In article <1637@ncoast.UUCP> btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) writes:
>Has anybody heard of, or actually have one of the Symmetric 375 machines
>from SYMMETRIC Computer Systems, San Jose?  I just got info from them today
>from BYTE... what they offer seems incredible... it is a portable box with
>a "750" inside running BSD 4.2 with all utilities... everybody's favorite
>languages  f77, Pascal LISP PROLOG BASIC apl, and even C... it has half the
>speed of a 750 (hence the name "375", a 50 meg Winchester drive... four
>serial ports... AND, you can take it home at night!  They sell it for
>$4995 (about $9000 with ethernet) and their number is:

This machine does exist.  I have owned one for just shy of a year.  With
recent software upgrade to full 4.2bsd with extensions/utilities, I'm VERY
happy with the box.  Has a couple shortcomings, and a couple lingering
software bugs, but nothing that isn't fixable or work-around-able.  Other than
one bug in the current C compiler that I haven't chased yet which keeps ELM
from compiling, everything I've moved off Vaxen and Suns has compiled on the
first try... and run fine.

There have been reviews posted in net.micro.ns32k before, I won't repeat
it all here.  Much of the review material is out of date with the new
software release anyway.  

If anyone has any questions, send mail and ask.  If I get too many responses,
I'll summarize.  In addition to winfree, I know that 'crash' and 'vixie' are
also S375 sites on the net... and we have a sort of informal user's group
going with a private newsgroup.  Other S375 owners who are interested, give
me a call or send mail and we can add you...
-- 


Bdale Garbee, N3EUA		phone: 303/593-9828 h, 303/590-2868 w
uucp: {bellcore,crash,hp-lsd,hpcsma,pitt,vixie}!winfree!bdale
fido: sysop of 156/8		packet: n3eua @ wb0blv, Colorado Springs