[misc.misc] Portal Lowers Rates for Telenet Access

larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (07/22/88)

In article <7475@cup.portal.com>, CS@cup.portal.com writes:
> Portal Communications Company announced new lower rates for Telenet
> access to the Portal System(TM).
> ... [commercial drivel develted]
> Some of the services Portal provides include connections to many other
> networks including Usenet, an international conferencing network, and
> to UUCP, ARPA, BITNET and other mail networks. ...
           ^^^^
	Portal Communications is a private, ostensibly profit-making BBS
having obviously no affiliation with DARPA nor with any bonafide educational
institution, industrial or government organization that does have any
affiliation with DARPA.

	What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and
charge for access to the ARPANET?  Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal
is engaging in this activity?

<>  Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York
<>  UUCP:  {allegra|ames|boulder|decvax|rutgers|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry
<>  VOICE: 716/688-1231          {att|hplabs|mtune|utzoo|uunet}!/
<>  FAX:   716/741-9635 {G1,G2,G3 modes}   "Have you hugged your cat today?" 

cquenel@pyrglass (Chris Quenelle) (07/22/88)

In article <2618@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes:
>	What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and
>charge for access to the ARPANET?  Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal
>is engaging in this activity?

I hope to god my company doesn't have to "affiliate" itself with 
EVERY institution I can reach through the net.

You have to draw the line somewhere, right ?

--chris

fair@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Erik E. Fair) (07/22/88)

Portal Communications Corp is not now, nor have they ever been
connected by an IP link to the ARPANET or to the Internet. They
have UUCP links to all their neighbors, and they use the UUCP maps
and the pathalias program to route mail to the Internet, BITNET,
etc.

Strictly speaking they should be advertising the ability to send
*mail* to the Internet, rather than a *connection* to the Internet,
since the difference is quite large. There are a lot more things
you can do with the Internet besides mail.

	Northern California UUCP map coordinator,

	Erik E. Fair	ucbvax!fair	fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu

jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) (07/23/88)

In article <2618@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes:
>>	What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and
>>charge for access to the ARPANET?  Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal
>>is engaging in this activity?

Portal, like all of us who have registered our domains through the
UUCP project, is registered with the Internet NIC (Network
Information Center) at SRI, and has arranged for an official
Internet forwarder (uunet.uu.net, to be precise).  It's all
very legal (they only provide "access to the ARPANET" in the
sense of electronic mail).  DARPA knows, since Portal is registered
with them and the registration describes the purpose of the business.


-- 
- Joe Buck  {uunet,ucbvax,pyramid,<smart-site>}!epimass.epi.com!jbuck
jbuck@epimass.epi.com	Old Arpa mailers: jbuck%epimass.epi.com@uunet.uu.net
	If you leave your fate in the hands of the gods, don't be 
	surprised if they have a few grins at your expense.	- Tom Robbins

werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (07/23/88)

In article <32208@pyramid.pyramid.com>, cquenel@pyrglass (Chris Quenelle) writes:
> In article <2618@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes:
> >	What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and
> >charge for access to the ARPANET?  Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal
> >is engaging in this activity?
> 
> I hope to god my company doesn't have to "affiliate" itself with 
> EVERY institution I can reach through the net.

Right-on, Chris.
 
 While I don't like the Portal-ad much myself (mentioning ARPA was "unwise",
to put it mildly) - but then I don't like most advertising hype  .....

....but Larry calling the ARPA-rulemaker genie and the lawyers out of
the bottle isn't that smart either.

Reminders of the time some years back when discussion in public about gateways
for mail from and to the ARPAnet was frowned on by administrators, while
they would exchange that kind of information without hesitation in private
to their buddies ...

Now we have domains and official gateways and name-servers and we can
talk about such things and I've seen even questions about reaching
commercial mail-nets like ATTmail and MCmail without never a raised
finger ...

So here comes this little site Portal, which offers NEWS and Email so
cheap that I'd not be surprised if companies would find it cheaper to take
their hosts of the net and have their people get an account on Portal.

It must be run by amateurs and be, in effect, non-profit or close to it
(or how else can you explain the price they charge?) and so they aren't
blessed with wisdom of a 10-year ARPAnet-user; and so they do get into
a little advertising hype to make their enterprise a going concern ...

Hey, give the guys a break, educate them with Email (I did, telling them
that I was not thrilled to receive their ad in my personal mailbox -
shades of electronic junkmail to come [apparently I had been added to
some mailing-list when I sent them a query about their site when they
first showed up on the net] - and I suggested that the proper place
to post such an ad might be in comp.new-prod... [no, I didn't tell them
not to mention ARPA; I never read junkmail that closely; I wished I had].

The day may come when we all will be glad that people without access
to the "blessed" networks can get an account on a commercial machine
at a reasonable cost to send us Email, without us being required to
pay for an account on a commercial machine also to be able to receive
the mail.

Some may want to keep an eye on the business practices of these commercial
Usenet NEWS-and-EMAIL sites (whoever provides the connection should,
probably, feel obliged to do this more so than the net, in general)
and it may even be advisable that someone writes up some guidelines for them
to follow (or get cut off?!) - but all that is really more bureaucracy than
can be handled by USEnet/UUCPnet (no such organizations exist, on purpose;
these terms only describe the fact that there are a bunch of computers in the
world through which people exchange messages and information.  There is
noone to sue - no lawyers need inquire :-)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
send Email to:    werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu   (Internet: 128.83.144.1)
		  .....!cs.utexas.edu!rascal.ics.utexas.edu!werner
alternative:   werner@astro.as.utexas.edu  or werner@utastro.UUCP

rusty@hodge.UUCP (Rusty Hodge) (07/23/88)

In article <2618@kitty.UUCP>, larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes:
> 
> 	What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and
> charge for access to the ARPANET?  Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal
> is engaging in this activity?

Larry, Larry, Larry!

Portal isn't selling access to ARPANET!  They are selling access to their
computers, and giving *free* access to ARPANET!

Mellow out, live and let live, eat, hack and be happy.  Just like Uunet!

-- 

Rusty Hodge, HCR Inc, 1588 N. Batavia St. Orange, CA 92667      (714) 974-6300
rusty@hodge.cts.com [uunet vdelta crash]!hodge!rusty        FAX (714) 921-8038

soley@ontenv.UUCP (Norman S. Soley) (07/25/88)

In article <860@hodge.UUCP>, rusty@hodge.UUCP (Rusty Hodge) writes:
> In article <2618@kitty.UUCP>, larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes:
> > 	What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and
> > charge for access to the ARPANET?  Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal
> > is engaging in this activity?
> 
> Portal isn't selling access to ARPANET!  They are selling access to their
> computers, and giving *free* access to ARPANET!

You know that, I know that, but go back and read the ad, try and
forget everything you know about portal. Are you SURE, without prior
knowledge of the nature of portal's business that what they are
advertising is just e-mail access to ARPAnet and not something more. 


-- 
Norman Soley - Data Communications Analyst - Ontario Ministry of the Environment
UUCP:	utgpu!ontmoh!------------\              VOICE:	+1 416 323 2623
	{attcan,utzoo}!lsuc!ncrcan!ontenv!norm	
             "witty saying not available due to writers strike"