peter@thirdi.UUCP (Peter Rowell) (03/10/89)
I am certain I will be royally flamed for the cross posting, but
frankly, I don't give a damn. I am posting to the two comp groups
because even hackers who never come out of the machine room need
to think about this subject.
This article is going to be a little different from what normally
appears in the newgroups I am posting it to. To be honest, I don't
really know what groups it "belongs" in. I do know that every person
who is on this net should at least consider what I have to say. It may
not apply to you (yeah, right), or it may bother you so much that you
don't want to think about it - that is for you to decide. You can file
this under "Unasked For Advice". You can flame me. I do ask you, for
your own sake, to read it.
The subject is the death of a parent - and what comes before and what
comes after.
On January 30th, 1989, my father died. He was 78 years old and had
been increasingly ill for several years. That he was to die was part
of the contract we all sign when we are born. That he was to die soon
was becoming increasingly obvious as his illnesses progressed. Even
though it was no surprise when he did die, it was a shock - not so much
at the rational level but more at the cellular level. Those of you who
have been through it do not need it described; those who have not been
through it (yet) cannot have it described.
What I have been doing since then (other than a massive reappraisal of
my priorities) is to make this event as much of a positive thing as I can -
it's my way of coping. I realize that our family was actually quite
lucky in that my sister is a social worker specializing in geriatrics
(the elderly) and my brother-in-law is an attorney. Because of this
in-house expertise, certain critical questions were asked before it was
too late to do anything about the answers and certain important actions
were taken that prevented a painful experience from becoming much worse.
If I had to summarize this whole message, it would be:
"Talk to your parents ...
while you still can."
This doesn't mean you have to "get to know them" or "become good
buddies with them" or anything else like that. If you have a good
relationship - great! But even if things have becomed strained over
the years, there are some things that need to be discussed for
*everyone's* benefit.
The following items are from the viewpoint of the husband dying before the
wife. The economic considerations probably will be slightly different
in the reverse case.
1. Long before it is "necessary", have they given any thought about
the orderly transfer of their estate. If they have, do *you*
know how it is setup? This subject often involves more than a
simple will. It is also too complicated to go into here.
Suffice it to say that if your parents have not spent at least
an hour with an estate planning attorney, then they (and you)
are driving down the road with a blind man at the wheel.
(And, no, I don't care how small their estate is!)
This is not the "kids waiting to inherit when the old folks kick
off". Failure to consider this item can turn an emotionally
devastating event into an economic disaster. In our case, certain
monies had been set aside by my father to cover a large, upcoming
tax liability. These had been in an account in only his
name (as opposed to a joint account). If the estate had gone
into probate (it can happen for reasons you might never suspect),
my mother quite possibly would have had to make a forced sale
of her home (where she has lived for 40 years) in order to
pay the tax man for what was a joint liability.
I don't know what your parents situation might be - *do you*????
2. Related to #1. Your parents may have assets of various types,
but do they generate a sufficient income stream (month by month
and particularly in the first few months) to support the
survivor - particularly your mother? My parents had a
respectable "net worth", but there was just one little problem -
it was almost entirely contained in the value of the house
and some stock in a small corporation with relatively little
market for its shares (*mostly* owned by other aunts and
uncles). In other words - it was all frozen solid and was
generating virtually no income at all! When my father died, so
did his salary (yes, he was still working at 78 - by choice).
Only by some very nimble scrambling by my brother-in-law did
we "fix" things a few days before Dad died.
I don't know what your parents situation might be - *do you*????
3. What are your *parent's* (not your) feelings about heroic life
support efforts? If you don't *know*, NOW IS THE TIME TO ASK!!
My father had avoided the subject of death for most of his
life. Only because my sister has to deal with it on a daily
basis in her clinical work did anyone in the family have
"the guts" to force him to confront the issue and make
some decisions. Once presented with a rational list of
options did my father choose "DNR" == "Do Not Resuscitate".
This may not be the right option for your parents: the type
of illness (or accident), their religion, etc. may all play
a part in the answer. But you need to ask the question!!!
One of the nurses in the intensive care ward (who sees death,
heroic efforts and the results on a daily basis) said that
if she ever was in bad shape she wanted DNR painted on her
forehead in big black letters. Having watched my father
die slowly over several hours (even without any extra support),
I understand why.
I don't know what your parents might want - *do you*????
4. Related to #3. Do you (and your parents) know about living
wills, powers of attorney and durable powers of attorney and
how they work in YOUR PARENT'S STATE? Every state is
different. Some states have more than one type of living will
and power of attorney. If these words sound like gobbledygook
to you, get thee to a bookstore or an attorney - TODAY!
Only by having someone (or more than one!) in the family
*legally* authorized to make such decisions can you be sure
that some well-meaning(?) doctor (or hospital) does not step
in and start dictating how people will live and die.
5. What are your parents wishes for their funeral or memorial service?
This literally comes under the heading of their "last request".
My father had only tangentially mentioned (once) that he would
"like to go out with bagpipes". Since he was decidedly not
religious, we had no other idea of what he wanted. So, damn it,
he went out with bagpipes! (In retrospect, it was perfect for him.)
I don't know what your parents might wish - *do you*????
Remember, your parents (or your wife or YOU) can be in perfect health,
non-smoker, non-drinker, steady church-goer, look-both-ways-before-
crossing-the-street, etc., but sooner or later you (and they) are
going to die. There is absolutely no reason to inflict poor planning
on the survivors. They are going to feel like several trucks hit them
and they don't need to find out that some "trivial" detail that could
be taken care of "someday" is now sending Mom to live in the poor house.
Even if you don't live in the U.S., I am sure you have parents, and
I am equally sure that questions very similar to these need to be
discussed.
If anyone has any questions, I will be happy to take a shot at them,
BUT I AM NOT AN EXPERT! The best thing to do is talk to your family
members and get these things out in the open. Then get good quality
professional (legal/CPA) help in setting up things the way your parents
want them.
P.s. My sister is working on a checklist of things you need to do when
a family member is dying or has recently died. When it is ready (in a
couple of months), I would be happy to mail it to interested individuals
(I will post it if there is enough interest).
This isn't fun stuff, but it is real.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Rowell peter@thirdi.UUCP
Third Eye Software, Inc. (415) 321-0967
Menlo Park, CA 94025arrom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) (03/11/89)
In article <449@thirdi.UUCP> peter@thirdi.UUCP (Peter Rowell) writes: >I am certain I will be royally flamed for the cross posting, but >frankly, I don't give a damn. I am posting to the two comp groups >because even hackers who never come out of the machine room need >to think about this subject. > >This article is going to be a little different from what normally >appears in the newgroups I am posting it to. To be honest, I don't >really know what groups it "belongs" in. I do know that every person >who is on this net should at least consider what I have to say. ... Translation: This is the wrong subject matter for the group. But _I_ am going to violate all the net guidelines because _I_ know what is good for _you_. And you thought it was "undergraduates" which caused problems... -- EARTH | --Kenneth Arromdee smog | bricks | UUCP: ....!jhunix!ins_akaa AIR mud FIRE| INTERNET: arromdee@crabcake.cs.jhu.edu soda water | tequila | BITNET: g49i0188@jhuvm WATER |(please, no mail to arrom@aplcen) Element chart from "Science Made Stupid". (The chart seems rather popular...)
hkhenson@cup.portal.com (H Keith Henson) (03/13/89)
The posting by peter@thirdi.UUCP (Peter Rowell) should cause people to think about the subject of death. I doubt many who read it will do anything, because (according to Miskky's model of the mind) we build "censors" in our minds which deflect thoughts about subjects close to our own mortality. I am one of the few who *have* made these kinds of arangements, but I don't expect many others to do likewise, or to take the much more dramatic step of making cryonic suspension arangements. Keith Henson
honi5133@dpscg1.UUCP (George E. Russell) (03/13/89)
Thank you, Peter, for sharing this information with us. Working as a counselor for a number of years now, I'd like to add my own input. >What I have been doing since then (other than a massive reappraisal of my >priorities) is to make this event as much of a positive thing as I can - >it's my way of coping. It's my way of coping too. I work a great deal with AIDS patients, where death is *almost* a certainty. Unfortunately, many of these people have been shunned by society, friends and family. The concept of making preparations for your own death becomes magnified in such cases. Do you want a DNR order on your hospital chart? What is to become of your assets after you die? (Especially relevant in cases where the family has "disowned" the person.) If you are in a, shall I use the term "non-traditional", relationship with another person, is that person provided for? Nowhere in the US are domestic partner relationships recognized (although a bill is before the San Francisco city council today). This allows for the biological family of a decedent to be awarded the entirety of the estate, without consideration of the domestic rela- tionship that may have existed for years. What if you are disabled, rather than die? "West 57th Street" recently showed a spot on Sharon Kowalski, a woman who was severly crippled in an auto accident.Her lover of umpteen years, Karen Thompson, was making significant progress with her through physical therapy (Karen is a licensed physical therapist), but Sharon's parents were not aware of the relationship and were granted legal guardianship of their daughter, refusing Karen visitation rights. Sharon's condition deteriorated. Only recently did a Federal Court grant Karen visitation rights, and since then, Sharon has reversed the deterioration she had experienced during Karen s absence. >"Talk to your parents... > while you still can." this is great advice. It MUST be known what your wishes are and those of the people whose deaths will affect you personally. >Remember, your parents (or your wife or YOU <or your significant other>) can >be in perfect health...,but sooner or later you (and they) are going to die. >There is absolutely no reason to inflict poor planning on the survivors. They >are going to feel like several trucks hit them and they don't need to find out >that some "trivial" detail that could be taken care of "someday" is now sending >Mom to live in the poor house. There are many competent professionals (individuals and agencies) who are well versed in cases like these. Consulting with them while you are able to is the only way to ensure that your wishes will be carried out in the event of your death or incapacitation. A lawyer who serves on the Advisory Board for my counseling service always tells us that "your NEVER too young to have a will." How right she is! finally, >I am posting to the two computer groups because even hackers who never come out >of the machine room need to think about this subject. Well, Peter, although I'm not a "hacker" by any means, my access to certain groups is restricted by my employer. Luckily, the two comp groups that you posted to ARE available to me. Thanks again. -------------------- George E. Russell UUCP: ...!osu-cis!dsacg1!dpscg1!grussell Internet: grussell%dpscg1.uucp@daitc.daitc.mil Bitnet: grussell%dpscg1.uucp%daitc.daitc.mil@cumym.cuny.edu Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are soley those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the management.
moto@cad.Berkeley.EDU (EDIF Committee) (03/14/89)
I agree fully with your posting, even the cross posting. I know the answers to
MOST of the questions you pose, but not all.
I will be talking to my dad (also 78) as soon as I get this posted.
NONE of us have the gaurantee of as much as our next breath, if we don't value
people close to us while we can then what do we value?
Thank You - while there is still time.
Mike Waters AA4MW/7 *
Motorola CAD Group * Waters@dover.uucp in disgise
Mesa, AZ ...!sun!sunburn!dover!waters * this means or mailer/news is
OR moto@cad.Berkley.EDU * down again!