larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (07/22/88)
In article <7475@cup.portal.com>, CS@cup.portal.com writes: > Portal Communications Company announced new lower rates for Telenet > access to the Portal System(TM). > ... [commercial drivel develted] > Some of the services Portal provides include connections to many other > networks including Usenet, an international conferencing network, and > to UUCP, ARPA, BITNET and other mail networks. ... ^^^^ Portal Communications is a private, ostensibly profit-making BBS having obviously no affiliation with DARPA nor with any bonafide educational institution, industrial or government organization that does have any affiliation with DARPA. What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and charge for access to the ARPANET? Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal is engaging in this activity? <> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <> UUCP: {allegra|ames|boulder|decvax|rutgers|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <> VOICE: 716/688-1231 {att|hplabs|mtune|utzoo|uunet}!/ <> FAX: 716/741-9635 {G1,G2,G3 modes} "Have you hugged your cat today?"
cquenel@pyrglass (Chris Quenelle) (07/22/88)
In article <2618@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: > What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and >charge for access to the ARPANET? Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal >is engaging in this activity? I hope to god my company doesn't have to "affiliate" itself with EVERY institution I can reach through the net. You have to draw the line somewhere, right ? --chris
fair@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Erik E. Fair) (07/22/88)
Portal Communications Corp is not now, nor have they ever been connected by an IP link to the ARPANET or to the Internet. They have UUCP links to all their neighbors, and they use the UUCP maps and the pathalias program to route mail to the Internet, BITNET, etc. Strictly speaking they should be advertising the ability to send *mail* to the Internet, rather than a *connection* to the Internet, since the difference is quite large. There are a lot more things you can do with the Internet besides mail. Northern California UUCP map coordinator, Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu
jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) (07/23/88)
In article <2618@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: >> What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and >>charge for access to the ARPANET? Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal >>is engaging in this activity? Portal, like all of us who have registered our domains through the UUCP project, is registered with the Internet NIC (Network Information Center) at SRI, and has arranged for an official Internet forwarder (uunet.uu.net, to be precise). It's all very legal (they only provide "access to the ARPANET" in the sense of electronic mail). DARPA knows, since Portal is registered with them and the registration describes the purpose of the business. -- - Joe Buck {uunet,ucbvax,pyramid,<smart-site>}!epimass.epi.com!jbuck jbuck@epimass.epi.com Old Arpa mailers: jbuck%epimass.epi.com@uunet.uu.net If you leave your fate in the hands of the gods, don't be surprised if they have a few grins at your expense. - Tom Robbins
werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (07/23/88)
In article <32208@pyramid.pyramid.com>, cquenel@pyrglass (Chris Quenelle) writes: > In article <2618@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: > > What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and > >charge for access to the ARPANET? Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal > >is engaging in this activity? > > I hope to god my company doesn't have to "affiliate" itself with > EVERY institution I can reach through the net. Right-on, Chris. While I don't like the Portal-ad much myself (mentioning ARPA was "unwise", to put it mildly) - but then I don't like most advertising hype ..... ....but Larry calling the ARPA-rulemaker genie and the lawyers out of the bottle isn't that smart either. Reminders of the time some years back when discussion in public about gateways for mail from and to the ARPAnet was frowned on by administrators, while they would exchange that kind of information without hesitation in private to their buddies ... Now we have domains and official gateways and name-servers and we can talk about such things and I've seen even questions about reaching commercial mail-nets like ATTmail and MCmail without never a raised finger ... So here comes this little site Portal, which offers NEWS and Email so cheap that I'd not be surprised if companies would find it cheaper to take their hosts of the net and have their people get an account on Portal. It must be run by amateurs and be, in effect, non-profit or close to it (or how else can you explain the price they charge?) and so they aren't blessed with wisdom of a 10-year ARPAnet-user; and so they do get into a little advertising hype to make their enterprise a going concern ... Hey, give the guys a break, educate them with Email (I did, telling them that I was not thrilled to receive their ad in my personal mailbox - shades of electronic junkmail to come [apparently I had been added to some mailing-list when I sent them a query about their site when they first showed up on the net] - and I suggested that the proper place to post such an ad might be in comp.new-prod... [no, I didn't tell them not to mention ARPA; I never read junkmail that closely; I wished I had]. The day may come when we all will be glad that people without access to the "blessed" networks can get an account on a commercial machine at a reasonable cost to send us Email, without us being required to pay for an account on a commercial machine also to be able to receive the mail. Some may want to keep an eye on the business practices of these commercial Usenet NEWS-and-EMAIL sites (whoever provides the connection should, probably, feel obliged to do this more so than the net, in general) and it may even be advisable that someone writes up some guidelines for them to follow (or get cut off?!) - but all that is really more bureaucracy than can be handled by USEnet/UUCPnet (no such organizations exist, on purpose; these terms only describe the fact that there are a bunch of computers in the world through which people exchange messages and information. There is noone to sue - no lawyers need inquire :-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ send Email to: werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Internet: 128.83.144.1) .....!cs.utexas.edu!rascal.ics.utexas.edu!werner alternative: werner@astro.as.utexas.edu or werner@utastro.UUCP
rusty@hodge.UUCP (Rusty Hodge) (07/23/88)
In article <2618@kitty.UUCP>, larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: > > What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and > charge for access to the ARPANET? Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal > is engaging in this activity? Larry, Larry, Larry! Portal isn't selling access to ARPANET! They are selling access to their computers, and giving *free* access to ARPANET! Mellow out, live and let live, eat, hack and be happy. Just like Uunet! -- Rusty Hodge, HCR Inc, 1588 N. Batavia St. Orange, CA 92667 (714) 974-6300 rusty@hodge.cts.com [uunet vdelta crash]!hodge!rusty FAX (714) 921-8038
soley@ontenv.UUCP (Norman S. Soley) (07/25/88)
In article <860@hodge.UUCP>, rusty@hodge.UUCP (Rusty Hodge) writes: > In article <2618@kitty.UUCP>, larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: > > What right does Portal Communications have to permit, solicit and > > charge for access to the ARPANET? Does anyone from DARPA know that Portal > > is engaging in this activity? > > Portal isn't selling access to ARPANET! They are selling access to their > computers, and giving *free* access to ARPANET! You know that, I know that, but go back and read the ad, try and forget everything you know about portal. Are you SURE, without prior knowledge of the nature of portal's business that what they are advertising is just e-mail access to ARPAnet and not something more. -- Norman Soley - Data Communications Analyst - Ontario Ministry of the Environment UUCP: utgpu!ontmoh!------------\ VOICE: +1 416 323 2623 {attcan,utzoo}!lsuc!ncrcan!ontenv!norm "witty saying not available due to writers strike"