[misc.wanted] 3B1/7300 Development set wanted

bruces@daneel.rtech.com (Bruce Stewart) (12/16/89)

I'm looking for a source for the deveopment set for the unix-pc (7300/3B1).
I'm currently running 3.51 and would like to acquire the development set 
(cc, etc.) at a price less than AT&T charges.  Pointers to sources or offers 
to sell gratefully accepted.

ADVTHANKSANCE.

-bruce stewart

dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) (12/16/89)

In article <4309@rtech.rtech.com> bruces@daneel.rtech.com (Bruce Stewart) writes:
>I'm looking for a source for the deveopment set for the unix-pc (7300/3B1).
>I'm currently running 3.51 and would like to acquire the development set 
>(cc, etc.) at a price less than AT&T charges.

You're not alone in this.  Maybe we'll get lucky and be able to put
together a group buy of the 3.51 development set someday.  I suppose
we'll have to wait until someone finds a cheap source, though.

-- 
David Sandberg             dts@quad.uucp or ..uunet!rosevax!sialis!quad!dts
"What's the difference??"

neville@hebron.ADS.COM (Neville Newman) (12/18/89)

In article <399@quad.uucp> dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) writes:
>In article <4309@rtech.rtech.com> bruces@daneel.rtech.com (Bruce Stewart) writes:
>>I'm looking for a source for the deveopment set for the unix-pc (7300/3B1).
>>I'm currently running 3.51 and would like to acquire the development set 
>>(cc, etc.) at a price less than AT&T charges.
>
>You're not alone in this.  Maybe we'll get lucky and be able to put
>together a group buy of the 3.51 development set someday.  I suppose
>we'll have to wait until someone finds a cheap source, though.

When i bought my Unix-PC from DDS, now Discovery Electronics, i seem
to remember them selling the devel. set at a discounted price.  i'm
not positive, however.  You could call them and ask - i think they're
in Atlanta.

Now i get to ask - why?  Wouldn't it be better in the long run to
get of couple of compiler writers to modify gas (GNU Assembler)
and family to generate/understand Unix-PC object files?

							-neville

dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) (12/18/89)

In article <10129@zodiac.ADS.COM> neville@hebron.ADS.COM (Neville Newman) writes:
:In article <399@quad.uucp> dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) writes:
:>In article <4309@rtech.rtech.com> bruces@daneel.rtech.com (Bruce Stewart) writes:
:>>I'm looking for a source for the development set for the unix-pc.
:>
:>You're not alone in this.
:
:Now i get to ask - why?  Wouldn't it be better in the long run to
:get of couple of compiler writers to modify gas (GNU Assembler)
:and family to generate/understand Unix-PC object files?

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I avoid all GNU software on
principle - I don't agree with Stallman's ideas.  Besides, there's a
lot more to the development set than just a compiler and assembler.

-- 
David Sandberg             dts@quad.uucp or ..uunet!rosevax!sialis!quad!dts
"What's the difference between 12-bit and 16-bit?  A lot more than 4 bits!"

scs@wotan (Steve Simmons) (12/20/89)

dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) writes:

>In article <10129@zodiac.ADS.COM> neville@hebron.ADS.COM (Neville Newman) writes:
>:In article <399@quad.uucp> dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) writes:

>:Now i get to ask - why?  Wouldn't it be better in the long run to
>:get of couple of compiler writers to modify gas (GNU Assembler)
>:and family to generate/understand Unix-PC object files?

>Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I avoid all GNU software on
>principle - I don't agree with Stallman's ideas.  Besides, there's a
>lot more to the development set than just a compiler and assembler.

Speaking as one who seriously looked at doing the above:

There are a number of utilities from the FSF binary utilities that would
need to be ported:  gas (assembler) and ld (the linker) are absolutely
required.  In addition strip, nm, and size would be nice (and are
trivial).

The primary problem is the symbol table (a.k.a. 'stab') format.  FSF
binutils are (were? I haven't looked recently) firmly based on UC Berkeley
format symbol tables.  AT&T uses the Common Object File Format (COFF).
Since /lib/libc.a and its friends are all firmly COFF files, there are
two choices:

Modify gas to output COFF format, modify ld to read/output COFF format,
modify strip/nm/size to use COFF format.  A lot of work.  Or...

Use a FSF utility called 'robotussin' (coff medicine) to translate the
COFF format lib.a files into BSD stab files.  Change all your lib.a files,
then happily run with FSF binutils.

At first the latter sounds very attractive.  Be warned, tho, there is a
price: you lose the shared libraries.  Since this results in radically
larger object files and executables, you pay a severe penalty on small
memory/small disk machines (like, for example, the Unix PC).

There might be a third solution: follow the first route, but hack FSF ld
to understand and link 3b1 shared libraries.  But to do that you need
the development set, and if you have the development set you don't need
to do it -- so nobody's done it.  Yet.

From scs Tue Dec 19 11:34:59 1989
From: scs
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,unix-pc.general,misc.wanted
Subject: Re: 3B1/7300 Development set wanted
Keywords: 3B1, 7300, UNIX-PC, Development set
Distribution: usa
References: <4309@rtech.rtech.com> <399@quad.uucp> <10129@zodiac.ADS.COM> <401@quad.uucp>
Status: OR

dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) writes:

>In article <10129@zodiac.ADS.COM> neville@hebron.ADS.COM (Neville Newman) writes:
>:In article <399@quad.uucp> dts@quad.uucp (David T. Sandberg) writes:

>:Now i get to ask - why?  Wouldn't it be better in the long run to
>:get of couple of compiler writers to modify gas (GNU Assembler)
>:and family to generate/understand Unix-PC object files?

>Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I avoid all GNU software on
>principle - I don't agree with Stallman's ideas.  Besides, there's a
>lot more to the development set than just a compiler and assembler.

Speaking as one who seriously looked at doing the above:

There are a number of utilities from the FSF binary utilities that would
need to be ported:  gas (assembler) and ld (the linker) are absolutely
required.  In addition strip, nm, and size would be nice (and are
trivial).

The primary problem is the symbol table (a.k.a. 'stab') format.  FSF
binutils are (were? I haven't looked recently) firmly based on UC Berkeley
format symbol tables.  AT&T uses the Common Object File Format (COFF).
Since /lib/libc.a and its friends are all firmly COFF files, there are
two choices:

Modify gas to output COFF format, modify ld to read/output COFF format,
modify strip/nm/size to use COFF format.  A lot of work.  Or...

Use a FSF utility called 'robotussin' (coff medicine) to translate the
COFF format lib.a files into BSD stab files.  Change all your lib.a files,
then happily run with FSF binutils.

At first the latter sounds very attractive.  Be warned, tho, there is a
price: you lose the shared libraries.  Since this results in radically
larger object files and executables, you pay a severe penalty on small
memory/small disk machines (like, for example, the Unix PC).

There might be a third solution: follow the first route, but hack FSF ld
to understand and link 3b1 shared libraries.  But to do that you need
the development set, and if you have the development set you don't need
to do it -- so nobody's done it.  Yet.

--

Steve Simmons         Just another midwestern boy
scs@vax3.iti.org  -- or -- ...!sharkey!itivax!scs
"Think of c++ as an object-oriented assembler..."