spam@hobbes.cc.iastate.edu (Begley Michael L) (10/12/90)
Hi...Yesterday I bought an S-100 bus system that the University was selling
off. It works, but I have absolutely no software or information on it.
The case has no manufactures' name on it, but inside are 4 boards:
1: the CPU board. MFD by Jade computer systems. (C) 1979 Compu/time
there's a Z-80 CPU, support hardware, a ROM (boot ROM perhaps),
and a USART for hooking to a serial terminal.
2: The floppy controller. 8800 Interface Board by ICOM. Is this just a
floppy controller or is it a SASI controller? there's a 2x25 pin
male connector.
3: Vandenburg Data Products 16K Static Memory Board (rev B)
This has 4 banks of 8 NEC M79729-738 memory chips.
4: Finally, one unlabeled board. I'm almost certain that this is a
memory board. There are 16 x4 mitsubishi M5L2114LP chips on it but
I didn't have a source book to make certain these were memory chips.
Connected to the 8800 Interface board are the floppy drives. These are
2 pertec 8" floppies Model # FD511 in a case made by ICOM Microperipherals.
That's about all I know right now about the hardware. I hooked a terminal
up to the USART port on the CPU and flipped it on and got on the screen
Z-80 MONITOR
?
and just about any command or random string of 2 characters gives me an
INVALID COMMAND SYNTAX error. The one command that did something different
was RT which returned (* damn! I can't remember what it returned, but it was
different *). Otherwise the machine just sits there...
The floppies seem to work, except that I haven't done more than turn them on.
All right, after all that, tell me, what the heck have I got? (* no flames *)
Can anybody out there help me with this beast? I'd like to really do some
serious playing with this machine, but I've got no manuals, no boot disk,
no OS, and no clue...
Also, I'd like to expand this thing, too. does anyone out there have any
S-100 equipment they're not using and would like to donate to a worthy cause
(me)? I'm looking for anything; a Cromemco Dazzler would be neat, or perhaps
a better CPU board (6809? 68000?), or maybe even an OS (CP/M? MINIX? UNIX?)
If you have anything you think I may be interested in getting or even paying
a small amount for (and you'd be amazed at what I can be interested in) send
me mail...
Thanks a pile,
-mike begley
spam@iastate.edudemarem@clutx.clarkson.edu (Mike deMare (Anomoly Daemon),222 Hamlin,,2684041) (10/12/90)
I suspect that your choices for an OS are CP/M or CP/M :-). You
can probably order documentation and/or CP/M drivers for your
devices, but you may have a bootstrap problem..you need the system
running CP/M in order to modify CP/M for the system. One nice thing
about CP/M is that the BIOS sources (in assembler) come with it
so you ought to do okay. I would recommend aquiring the following
items (to run on another system while getting your S-100 up):
8080 cross-assembler
Small-C (8080 version, source code is available, I have seen it in
*very* old Doctor Dobbs Journals, and believe that some
user groups have it available in machine readable form).
Interestingly enough I happen to have a Z80 S-100 system running
CP/M right here (part of my collection of anachronistic computers,
I hardly ever use it, it sits next to an 8088 system which is next
to an 80286 system, which is the most modern thing I own, and only
because the University issued it to me when I enrolled). Do not
even dream of trying to run MINIX on an 8080 or Z80 system, it is
pretty near impossible.
Mike
Crime does not pay ... as well as politics.
-- A. E. Newmanlennox@minilove.diag.stratus.com (Craig Scott Lennox) (10/12/90)
In article <1990Oct12.000849.12599@news.clarkson.edu> demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu (Mike deMare (Anomoly Daemon),222 Hamlin,,2684041) writes: Do not even dream of trying to run MINIX on an 8080 or Z80 system, it is pretty near impossible. Quite right ... for that you'd need the raw power of a 6502-based Apple ][... -- | flame me at: lennox@minilove.diag.stratus.com, (Craig Scott Lennox) | |"Oh boy, virtual memory! Now I'm gonna make myself a REALLY BIG ram disk!" | | Disclaimer: My opinions are covered by section 2b of the Gnu Public | | License and thus do not belong to Stratus Computer. |
fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) (10/13/90)
In article <1990Oct12.000849.12599@news.clarkson.edu> demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >I suspect that your choices for an OS are CP/M or CP/M :-). You >can probably order documentation and/or CP/M drivers for your >devices, but you may have a bootstrap problem..you need the system >running CP/M in order to modify CP/M for the system. One nice thing >about CP/M is that the BIOS sources (in assembler) come with it >so you ought to do okay. I would recommend aquiring the following >items (to run on another system while getting your S-100 up): > >8080 cross-assembler An 8080 cross assembler on a cp/m machine?? go figure... >Small-C (8080 version, source code is available, I have seen it in > *very* old Doctor Dobbs Journals, and believe that some > user groups have it available in machine readable form). NO! Don't do this! Bad idea. you don't want to write a bios in c. you're only restricted to a maximum address space of 64k, so your bios has to be as small and as fast as possible. this is very important if you plan to add double density drives to the system, since that requires some form of sector blocking/deblocking. you do that in c and the bios will be much larger than it needs to be. the best tools to use when writing or hacking a bios is either ASM (which comes wth cpm) or RMAC, DR's relocating macro assembler. the job is easier with RMAC because it will generate your DPHs and DPBs for you. My cpm mentor tells me MASM will not work for this. > >Interestingly enough I happen to have a Z80 S-100 system running >CP/M right here (part of my collection of anachronistic computers, >I hardly ever use it, it sits next to an 8088 system which is next >to an 80286 system, which is the most modern thing I own, and only >because the University issued it to me when I enrolled). Do not >even dream of trying to run MINIX on an 8080 or Z80 system, it is >pretty near impossible. > I agree... -- fzsitvay@techbook.COM - one of these days i'll get it right... Version 2 of anything is usually the version that works.
demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu (Mike deMare (Anomoly Daemon),222 Hamlin,,2684041) (10/13/90)
From article <1990Oct12.235220.18522@techbook.com>, by fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay): > In article <1990Oct12.000849.12599@news.clarkson.edu> demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >>I suspect that your choices for an OS are CP/M or CP/M :-). You >>can probably order documentation and/or CP/M drivers for your >>devices, but you may have a bootstrap problem..you need the system >>running CP/M in order to modify CP/M for the system. One nice thing >>about CP/M is that the BIOS sources (in assembler) come with it >>so you ought to do okay. I would recommend aquiring the following >>items (to run on another system while getting your S-100 up): >> >>8080 cross-assembler > > An 8080 cross assembler on a cp/m machine?? go figure... > I was thinking in terms of assembling some code on his "real" machine and keying it in through the monitor or frontpanel (ugh). I have seen some nice 8080 assemblers running on PDP-11's (under Unix lev. 6). >>Small-C (8080 version, source code is available, I have seen it in >> *very* old Doctor Dobbs Journals, and believe that some >> user groups have it available in machine readable form). > NO! > > Don't do this! Bad idea. > > you don't want to write a bios in c. you're only restricted to > a maximum address space of 64k, so your bios has to be as small and > as fast as possible. this is very important if you plan to add > double density drives to the system, since that requires some form > of sector blocking/deblocking. you do that in c and the bios will > be much larger than it needs to be. the best tools to use when writing > or hacking a bios is either ASM (which comes wth cpm) or RMAC, DR's > relocating macro assembler. the job is easier with RMAC because it > will generate your DPHs and DPBs for you. My cpm mentor tells me MASM > will not work for this. Quite clearly you are correct, it is inappropriate to code a BIOS in C. But I had something a little different in mind..realating to AFTER he got the system up. > fzsitvay@techbook.COM - one of these days i'll get it right... > > Version 2 of anything is usually the version that works. Mike Crime does not pay ... as well as politics. -- A. E. Newman
mlewis@unocss.unomaha.edu (mlewis) (10/14/90)
From article <1990Oct11.201515.22306@news.iastate.edu>, by spam@hobbes.cc.iastate.edu (Begley Michael L): > Hi...Yesterday I bought an S-100 bus system that the University was selling > off. It works, but I have absolutely no software or information on it. > The case has no manufactures' name on it, but inside are 4 boards: > 3: Vandenburg Data Products 16K Static Memory Board (rev B) > This has 4 banks of 8 NEC M79729-738 memory chips. Well, I have three of these (Rev A), bought in 1976 and still working. This is a 16K static MOS RAM board. Note, MOS. The Rev A boards were not rated for 4 MHz, but the Rev B is. About the only CPU you can use with those memory boards is a Z-80A, which you have. Welcome to the wonderful world of S-100, where expenses often exceed gains. S-100 boards available now are VERY expensive, like $350 for a SCSI controller, and so forth. I really liked the S-100 buss (I have 3 S-100 systems) but they are not worth my effort to upgrade. Marc -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Na khuya mne ehto gavno? | Internet: cs057@zeus.unomaha.edu preferred machine->| UUCP: uunet!mcmi!unocss!mlewis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) (10/15/90)
In article <1990Oct13.163615.6218@news.clarkson.edu> demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >From article <1990Oct12.235220.18522@techbook.com>, by fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay): >> In article <1990Oct12.000849.12599@news.clarkson.edu> demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >>>I suspect that your choices for an OS are CP/M or CP/M :-). You >>>can probably order documentation and/or CP/M drivers for your >>>devices, but you may have a bootstrap problem..you need the system >>>running CP/M in order to modify CP/M for the system. One nice thing >>>about CP/M is that the BIOS sources (in assembler) come with it >>>so you ought to do okay. I would recommend aquiring the following >>>items (to run on another system while getting your S-100 up): >>> >>>8080 cross-assembler >> >> An 8080 cross assembler on a cp/m machine?? go figure... >> > >I was thinking in terms of assembling some code on his "real" machine >and keying it in through the monitor or frontpanel (ugh). I have seen >some nice 8080 assemblers running on PDP-11's (under Unix lev. 6). > opps. sorry... actually, if you can find a cross assembler for a dos machine to write z80 code, you'd be farther ahead of the game provided it worked much like cp/m's ASM.COM or RMAC. but the easiest route (if you had to config cp/m from scratch) is to find someone with a cp/m machine that has the same disk format, and hack the bios. the beauty of this is that you can write a boot disk for the target machine on the source machine. It is a bit of trial and error, but if you're careful, you'll be succesfull. >>>Small-C (8080 version, source code is available, I have seen it in >>> *very* old Doctor Dobbs Journals, and believe that some >>> user groups have it available in machine readable form). >> NO! >> >> Don't do this! Bad idea. >> >> you don't want to write a bios in c. you're only restricted to >> a maximum address space of 64k, so your bios has to be as small and >> as fast as possible. this is very important if you plan to add >> double density drives to the system, since that requires some form >> of sector blocking/deblocking. you do that in c and the bios will >> be much larger than it needs to be. the best tools to use when writing >> or hacking a bios is either ASM (which comes wth cpm) or RMAC, DR's >> relocating macro assembler. the job is easier with RMAC because it >> will generate your DPHs and DPBs for you. My cpm mentor tells me MASM >> will not work for this. > >Quite clearly you are correct, it is inappropriate to code a BIOS >in C. But I had something a little different in mind..realating >to AFTER he got the system up. > ah, i see. in addition to small c, there is microsoft's basic compiler, and bds c. which i think is still undergoing development. nevertheless, you'll want to get 64k in the machine as soon as possible, as cp/m takes 8k to begin with, and most of these compilers tack on their own run time code -- fzsitvay@techbook.COM - one of these days i'll get it right... Version 2 of anything is usually the version that works.
jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) (10/15/90)
demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu wrote: > I suspect that your choices for an OS are CP/M or CP/M :-). [...] > Do not even dream of trying to run MINIX on an 8080 or Z80 system, it is > pretty near impossible. Cromemco had an OS called Cromix that was meant to be vaguely Unix-like. I've seen it running and it seemed to work. Needed extra memory and CPU boards above the bare S-100 minimum, I think. -- -- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6044 work 041 556 1878 home JANET: jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcsun and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913 INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) (10/15/90)
In article <1990Oct12.000849.12599@news.clarkson.edu> demarem@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >because the University issued it to me when I enrolled). Do not >even dream of trying to run MINIX on an 8080 or Z80 system, it is >pretty near impossible. Yes, a Z80 system is usually too small but either a bank-switched Z80 system (with lots of memory) or a HD64180 (with lots of memory too) could be used. It won't be that nice but the original Minix (on a PC/XT) has a limitation of 64K/process that could be mapped to the address space of the Z80, the HD64180 would even have the mapping curcuit on the chip. Regards, -- Michael van Elst UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
pjh@mccc.uucp (Pete Holsberg) (10/16/90)
In article <1990Oct14.205630.7222@techbook.com> fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) writes:
=
= actually, if you can find a cross assembler for a dos machine to write
=z80 code, you'd be farther ahead of the game provided it worked much like
=cp/m's ASM.COM or RMAC.
Or he could run a CP/M emulator on the DOS computer and use ASM, RMAC,
etc. directly.
Pete
--
Prof. Peter J. Holsberg Mercer County Community College
Voice: 609-586-4800 Engineering Technology, Computers and Math
UUCP:...!princeton!mccc!pjh 1200 Old Trenton Road, Trenton, NJ 08690
Internet: pjh@mccc.edu Trenton Computer Festival -- 4/20-21/91fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) (10/20/90)
In article <1990Oct16.140240.17435@mccc.uucp> pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes: >In article <1990Oct14.205630.7222@techbook.com> fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) writes: >= >= actually, if you can find a cross assembler for a dos machine to write >=z80 code, you'd be farther ahead of the game provided it worked much like >=cp/m's ASM.COM or RMAC. > >Or he could run a CP/M emulator on the DOS computer and use ASM, RMAC, >etc. directly. > Not exactly. I tried using z80mu to write a zmd overlay. I could assemble it but the loader barfed under the emulator. Z80MU does not support such things as setting the DMA address for cp/m, among other things. if anybody knows of another emulator that works like z80mu (user interface) but does a better emulation, i'd appreciate hearing from you. -- fzsitvay@techbook.COM - but don't quote me on that.... American Oil Company motto - Bend over, We'll pump!!!
ianj@ijpc.UUCP (Ian Justman) (10/22/90)
fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) writes: > Not exactly. I tried using z80mu to write a zmd overlay. I could > assemble it but the loader barfed under the emulator. What loader were you using? And does it say what calls it puked on? > Z80MU does > not support such things as setting the DMA address for cp/m, among > other things. What do you expect for an emulator? It probably could be done but I dunno... > if anybody knows of another emulator that works like > z80mu (user interface) but does a better emulation, i'd appreciate > hearing from you. You and me both. I've heard that Joan Riff has great contempt for ZCPR3, 4DOS and like packages, and besides, her stuff is cataclysmically expensive. I personally would not pay for her stuff because that software is not worth $150, and why penalize us for her mistake she made before which supposedly caused her company to "lose their shirts"? Ah well, the heck with it... (grin)
fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) (10/24/90)
In article <PLTFR2w163w@ijpc.UUCP> ianj@ijpc.UUCP (Ian Justman) writes: >fzsitvay@techbook.com (Frank Zsitvay) writes: > >> Not exactly. I tried using z80mu to write a zmd overlay. I could >> assemble it but the loader barfed under the emulator. > >What loader were you using? And does it say what calls it puked >on? > i was using cp/m load.com. and the function was number 26, set DMA address. >> Z80MU does >> not support such things as setting the DMA address for cp/m, among >> other things. > >What do you expect for an emulator? It probably could be done >but I dunno... > what do i expect from an emulator?? an emulation that works. granted it is free software (virtually) so i can't beef much, but all the DMA address in cp/m does is tell the operating system where the next disk operating is supposed to read/load the data from/to. this is used quite a bit in some utilities. when loading a file for processing, the application reads in a disk block, increments the DMA address by 128, and reads the next one, and so on. it's a bit faster than doing a read/block move approach. as far as emulating a z80, it does a good job. emulating cp/m is another story. And now for something completely different... I have a california computer systems s100 machine that i am trying to get back into working order. it has three boards, a model 2810 Z80 cpu, a model 2065 64k RAM board, and a model 2422 Disk controller board. My problem is: What is the power-on jump address supposed to be set at so the coldstart rom will be executed?? when i got the board it was set at 0000H, which didn't work. I have no documentation with this machine, so i don't want to resort to the trial and error method, checking all 65536 addresses, although by educated guesses it could be narrowed down to 512 or so. Also, if anyone else out there has a machine like this one, would i be able to get a copy of the boot disk?? i have a bios listing for this system, but don't want to go through the hassle of building cp/m onto a floppy, and also the only machine i have here (with 8 inch drives) is a tandy model 12, which has an ersatz cp/m implementation. (doesn't support movcpm and sysgen, which are a necessity for this type of port.) and another request... i also have a kaypro 2 (1983), and i need a boot disk for it. -- fzsitvay@techbook.COM - but don't quote me on that.... American Oil Company motto - Bend over, We'll pump!!!