gks@vax135.UUCP (Ken Swanson) (10/08/86)
From Dave Hatcher: > I am wondering what significance (spiritualy speaking) the resurrection > has on our salvation. > > What is the resurrection saying compared to the crucifixion, in response > to our salvation. In regard to salvation, the crucifixion and the resurrection, I believe Scripture says the following: Because of the crucifixion (Jesus taking on our sins and imputing His righteousness to us - we are worthy in the eyes of God) we can, as Paul says, "work out our salvation with fear and trembling." The resurrection is essential in that it signifies the victory of Jesus over Satan (Satan is bound, but not destroyed.) That same power of the Holy Spirit which enabled Jesus to rise from the dead has been given to us so that we may "work out our salvation" and bring down the strongholds of Satan. Ken Swanson AT&T Bell Labs Holmdel, NJ 07733 ... vax135!gks [I'd appreciate it if people who send things to me would supply a subject line. Most of the messages don't have one. Inews requires it. I will make up a subject line where there is an obvious one, but I had to hold one posting because I couldn't come up with an obvious subject. --clh]
ptl@fluke.UUCP (10/12/86)
Hi, Just wanted to get some feedback from you folks as to what you do to fight back the times when fear, doubting, and worry enter your lives. When I remember to do it, one thing that works for me is to do an end run on the `whatever' it is that's bothering me. What I mean is --- say xxx is really on my mind and bothering me, *really* worrying me, causing me to even begin to have fears I know are blown up and irrational. Instead of fighting off xxx, focusing on xxx, and battling xxx, I just tell myself "I don't have time to waste worrying about xxx" and leave it in God's hands and move on, trusting it is in God's ability to work on whatever it is; and if He wants me to do something about it, He'll open doors for me, give me insights into the problems, and desires in my heart that I will know are from Him, leading me to action or even no action at all. I'm writing this even now to help myself better accept just what I'm sharing with you, to help me overcome some fears I'm battling right now. Sharing it helps me believe in it, which actually helps me use this tool. Funny - a lot like how faith works. How about you? What do you do to overcome fear, worry, and doubt in your life? All God's Blessings, Mike Andrews (PTL)
stever@videovax.UUCP (Steven E. Rice, P.E.) (10/14/86)
In article <6129@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, Ken Swanson (gks@vax135.UUCP) gives an answer to questions asked by Dave Hatcher: > From Dave Hatcher: > >> I am wondering what significance (spiritualy speaking) the resurrection >> has on our salvation. >> >> What is the resurrection saying compared to the crucifixion, in response >> to our salvation. > > In regard to salvation, the crucifixion and the resurrection, I believe > Scripture says the following: > > Because of the crucifixion (Jesus taking on our sins and imputing > His righteousness to us - we are worthy in the eyes of God) we > can, as Paul says, "work out our salvation with fear and trembling." > The resurrection is essential in that it signifies the victory of > Jesus over Satan (Satan is bound, but not destroyed.) That same > power of the Holy Spirit which enabled Jesus to rise from the dead > has been given to us so that we may "work out our salvation" and > bring down the strongholds of Satan. What Ken says may be true, but it misses the central points that Scripture makes about the Crucifixion and the Resurrection. The significance of the Crucifixion is that Christ suffered and died vicariously for our sins ("vicariously" means "performed or suffered by one person as a substitute for another or to the benefit or advantage of another" -- Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary). Because He took our punishment (though He was absolutely holy, and deserved none at all), we have peace with God when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior: Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6 (NIV) What the prophet Isaiah says is echoed by Paul: For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that ^^^^ Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. . . . I Corinthians 15:3-5 (NIV) The Resurrection shows that God approves of what Jesus did, and gave Him power ("authority") to rise again: I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me -- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father -- and I lay down my life for the sheep. . . . The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life -- only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ John 10:14-18, excerpted (NIV) Furthermore, the Resurrection is essential for our salvation: But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ your faith. . . . And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ futile; you are still in your sins. Then those who have fallen asleep ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied above all men. I Corinthians 15:12-19, excerpted (NIV) Without the Crucifixion, the Resurrection is, of course, impossible. On the other hand, the Crucifixion with no Resurrection would mean that Jesus was no different than the thousands of other men who died by crucifixion. If there is no Resurrection, there is no hope. But there was both a Crucifixion and a Resurrection! On the Cross, Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. This means that we can approach God boldly, not trembling in fear that He might blast us to a cinder, but confident that He will accept us because we have been bought by Christ's blood. The Resurrection is God's "seal of approval" -- because Christ was raised, we have absolute assurance of our own salvation. Steve Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- {decvax | hplabs | ihnp4 | uw-beaver}!tektronix!videovax!stever [This is slightly longer than I would have preferred. I'm not refusing many articles this early in the game. But I think I would have preferred the Biblical citations to have contained just the key phrases. I hope Steve is not offended by being used as an example of what is, after all, a common practice. Indeed his citations are generally more carefully thought-out and relevant than some I have seen. But please recall that we're trying to keep the volume of the group down, so that we don't offend the folks that are paying the bills. --clh]
homeier@aero.UUCP (Peter Homeier) (11/02/86)
From Dave Hatcher: > I am wondering what significance (spiritualy speaking) the resurrection > has on our salvation. > > What is the resurrection saying compared to the crucifixion, in response > to our salvation. The crucifixion shows the death of our old nature, the resurrection shows the birth of our new life. Just as Jesus will never die again, so also our new nature is eternal and can never die. The resurrection shows the triumph of God over Satan, life over death, grace over law and sin. And the resurrection is the first fruits of mankind to God, the first example of the resurrection of all who believe in Jesus. When the end of the age appears, all who have trusted in Jesus as their Lord and Savior will arise from the dead, just as Jesus arose from the dead first. He first forged the path that we shall also walk, and by His own blood purchased the price of our redemption. By the power of His sinless life and submission to the Father's will, even to the humility of death on a cross, Jesus broke the power of the Devil over mankind to keep them enslaved by their own failures and weaknesses. Then by the power of His resurrection, Jesus exemplified and released to us that same power to come up out of all that we were, into the light and strength of His glorious life. In the Old Testament, the crucifixion is like the plagues that descended on Egypt while they were holding the Israelites as slaves. These plagues, and especially the last one, the death of the first-born, broke the will of Pharaoh to keep them enslaved. The resurrection then is like the total destruction of the Egyptians in the waters of the Red Sea, and the release of the Israelites to complete freedom and newness of life. We can share in the power of Jesus's resurrection in many ways. First, when we are saved, we gain eternal life and the promise of a bodily resurrection when Jesus returns. But also as we grow in the knowledge of the Lord, we gain increasing dimensions of His power visibly evident in our lives here and now. Such things as God's provision of power to give us guidance and direction in the choices of our lives, to hear our prayers for grace in time of need, to enable us to love others purely, even the unlovely ones, to heal the brokenhearted of grief and depression, and to heal our bodies in many cases of physical ailments, all together proclaim God's delivering, restoring, renewing and resurrecting power in our lives. Paul said that if Jesus was not raised from the dead, then our faith was empty and foolish and that we were still in our sins. But Jesus was indeed raised from the dead, and that resurrection is the "proof of the pudding" that Jesus was indeed who He said He was, the Son of God. If Jesus had died on the Cross without any resurrection, then there would be no evidence that He was anything other than a very good man with a wonderful philosophy. But the resurrection is first of all God testifying to man that Jesus was the Messiah, the One who was promised who would deliver His people from their sins. And the resurrection is then a promise to all who would believe in Jesus, that they can also share in that glorious life forever, if they will but submit to the indignity and foolishness, by the world's standards, of simple, childlike faith. --------------------------------- Peter Homeier ______ Arpanet: homeier@aerospace / o \_/ UUCP: ..!ihnp4!trwrb!aero!homeier \___)__/ \ The Aerospace Corporation, M1-108 El Segundo, CA 90245 Disclaimer: Anything expressed above is my personal opinion, and not the position of the Aerospace Corporation.
daveh@tekcrl.UUCP (11/06/86)
>From: homeier@aero.UUCP (Peter Homeier) >we are saved, we gain eternal life and the promise of a bodily resurrection >when Jesus returns. I have the hardest time understanding why the promise of a "bodily resurrection" is of such importance for Christians. Isn't God a spiritual being? Isn't our separation from God a spiritual separation? And isn't our relationship with God a spiritual relationship? A bodily resurrection when Jesus returns seems to suggest that we are not brought to God spiritually but... physically. Indeed, I can think of all kinds of ramifications when salvation is looked upon as a physical importance vs. being of a spiritual importance. I'm not suggesting that the body is not important, but I am wondering about salvation and just what is saved from what, in the Christian sense. And then what is brought to God, again in the Christian sense. Then again, there may be some definition differences. So... 1) What is being saved in order to bring the body to God? 2) The above question leads into, What are we? Dave Hatcher If you *SEE* love in others, you will treat them with *LOVE*
nlt@duke.UUCP (Nancy L. Tinkham) (11/17/86)
In his recent article, Dave Hatcher asks the following: > I have the hardest time understanding why the promise of a "bodily > resurrection" is of such importance for Christians. Isn't God a > spiritual being? Isn't our separation from God a spiritual separation? > And isn't our relationship with God a spiritual relationship? and later, > 1) What is being saved in order to bring the body to God? > 2) The above question leads into, What are we? The stress in Christian tradition on the resurrection of the body, as opposed to mere immortality of the soul/spirit, comes from the view of what a human being is (as, indeed, Dave's questions suggest). In the best of early Christian thought, a human being is seen not as a soul which happens to be temporarily trapped in a body, but rather as a soul and body together, an entity which is both spiritual and physical. Since an essential part of human life is physical existence, in order to say a person "lives forever" one must say that the person has a continuing physical existence; otherwise, the "everlasting" life is not full human life. In other words, the doctrine of the resurrection of the body is an affirmation that the whole person, rather than just a part of the person, will live forever. In reply to the first question ("What is being saved...?"), it is the whole human person that is saved. It is true that sin and salvation are more obviously associated with spirit than with body; nevertheless, because spirit and body are so closely interrelated, humans rarely if ever act as pure spirit. Instead, we see spiritual decisions and impulses translated into physical actions, and conversely physical actions influencing the spirit. The Redemptive Act itself is a physical event, a crucifixion; and the means by which salvation is enacted in our lives are not only "spiritual" actions such as prayer, meditation, and the cultivation of feelings of compassion, but also physical actions: verbal confessions of faith, baptism and other sacraments, acting in a loving manner toward fellow humans. It is because of this inseparability of spirit from body that the Christian tradition affirms the resurrection of the body and speaks of salvation of both body and soul. Nancy L. Tinkham ...duke!nlt