eitans%wisdom.BITNET@cmcl2.UUCP (Eitan Shternbaum) (12/21/86)
Trying to resolve the problem of Jesus,NT,Christianity vs History
is very complicated , b4 we try to dig proofs from the Nt we must check
wether the NT (which is our main source ) is a Valid & Euthentic
historical document (which is not) & while analysing the text we must
use logic & the knowledge of the debated historical period , Thus
we would be able to recreate the dynmical process in which this history
has taken its place . Ignoring history would leed us into deadend .
The first chapters of the NT begun to be written from 80 AC and the book
editing was finished around 220-250 AC in that period the nazarians
become into christians . from a JEWISH SECT the movement become a NON
JEWISH RELIGION , this editing EVOLUTION can be found in the NT.
There are 4 categories for the traces of that evolutions :
1: the attitude to the jews
2: thw attitude to the non jews
3: the attitude to the laws of the bible
4: the position of jesus
5: the definition of jesus's audience
by reading the NT you can notice that from the jews as the priests of god
jews become the anti-crist , from non jews being less then dogs-the glory
of god fall upon them , from keeping all the laws of the bible & keeping
all the laws of the pharasis - abolish evry law , faith holy not deeds
from jesus as a prophet & a social leader he envolves into messiah and
finally to the son of god .
The NT itself is based on several ideas,myths&legends who were spread
among the jews & non jews : the virgin birth,paganism (man-god,man son of
god ) , the legends of the bible (pharo=herode,moses=jesus,joseph flys to
egypt=abraham,izak,jacob) & the helenistic view about supiriority of the
spirit on the material (those were spread among the non jews & the
helenist jews , paul was a helenist jew)
finally , the book itself is full with contradictions
(partly dew to the evolution of the text) , and it's such an opinionated
book that in some cases there are clear traces of twisting truth
(if not lies & forgery) and of (deliberate or not) missinterpratation.
after clearing the question of the validity of the NT i'm moving to
the problem : what did he REALLY say ? . In order to get a correct answer
we must examine the evangelions carefully . From the text itself
we'll find our answer .
The first issue we need to settle is his attitude to the laws of the
bible and to the leaders of judaism in those times :
MAT Ch.5 17-20 , MAT Ch.23 1-3 , LUK Ch.16 17
Those 3 paragrphs show us that jesus doesn't come to change Judaism ,
Jesus accepts the leadership of the Pharasis , Jesus states that changing
the laws of judaism is forbiden . Jesus demands strict moral values but
for that one should first keep all the laws of judaism . One can not
to enter the Heavenly realm if he is less then the Pharasis .
the second issue we need to settle is jesus's attitude to the non jews
& to determine his target audience :
MAT Ch.10 5-6 MAT Ch.19 28 (not a full list)
As we see jesus speaks only for the jews , paulus himself admits it in
several places though he covers the fact with some excuses ...
I , myself , has done some reading in the TALMUD (book of jewish law)
and i've found that some of the proverbs & saying are quite identical
to those in the NT some of his ideas can be traced in the TALMUD
( mostly as the mionrity view but still a legitimate JEWISH view )
A full list with direct entries will be given later (i'm not a TALMUD
expert i'm consulting someone who knows more about it than me )
the few arguments of jesus with the leaders were mainly about their moral
( critisim that was spread among the pharasis themselves )
and about matters of law that were commonly debated in that period
( As i've already stated in the former paragraph , it was legitamate to
argue about those matters , the different interpratations has created
the various jewish sects ) some of those ideas has accepted by the
rabanical institution and can be found in the talmud .
ofcourse they were all quite axagerated because of the fact that the
vast majority of the christians after 50 years was no jewish thus
the non jew writers did not understand the meaning
There are several places where Jesus's Judaism can be shown by his acts
(He feasts the passover , he travels to jerusalem according to the jewish
callander, his crtisism about the Priests,Pharasis & the temple is quite
like the crtisism of the Old prophets . There is a match between his
ideas and the idears who were spread among the pharasis , especially
in the matter of resisting the romans & their servants ).
When we come to deal with paulus&the acts of the followers
Then we notice an ashtonishing fact , even though Jesus is the most
important figure in Christainity (or at least should've been).
still the NT has only 4 books about jesus (They all repeat the same
version , more or less) while Paul as someone who didn't even knew Jesus
Takes leadership & puts aside JESUS,Peter & the rest students.
1/2 of the NT is the ideas of Paul the other is devided among the others
but the 'spirit' of pauline editing is noticed all over the books .
The NT is an opinonated book (VERY) which shows the Pauline ideas about
How Jesus SHOULD have been .
Jesus himself didn't INVENT much of theology since he was only a REFORMER
founder of the JEWISH sect , The Nazarians not of a religion (Xianity) .
History itself state that only after 17 years the nazarian begun to
spread their ideas outside Judea & only after Paulus join the Nazarians
they accepted non jewish belivers of Jesus . the jews soon became
minority while Paulus takes over the leadership of the forign churchs
He change the Judaism into mixed helemism,semimonotheism while holding
a financial threat on the jewish community in Jerusalem unless they
accept his changes (his changes were mostly to gain power over the
students of Jesus) after 40 years most of the nazarians has died in the
jewish revolt against the romans , Thus Paulus could continue his
pragmatist Chrsitianity (no longer Nazarian Judaism), claiming
the 'copyrights' over jesus & making him into a 'trademark' of his ...
History is written by the winners ... and by the pragmatists !
That's all (for now)
Martyr