stever@videovax.uucp (Steven E. Rice) (03/09/87)
[The number of submissions was such that I have eliminated a few that seemed to duplicate views already expressed. Also, someone submitted a Baha'i commentary on Rev 12. My reading of reactions to past postings is that people would rather not see that sort of material unless there is some specific connection with Christianity. --clh] Fascinating! Although Mike Huybensz and I are apparently poles apart on the validity of Christianity, he and I share the same feeling about faith that is based on falsehood (article <9756@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>): > . . . The heck with truth, it's the puny little > faith of Christians that matter. Fooey. . . . Unfortunately, too many Christians are ready to concede that Scripture is inaccurate, while still claiming there is plenty of reason to believe what it teaches! In article <9687@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, our moderator proposed to give "some feel for what a moderately liberal Christian position on Scripture looks like." He went on to say: | . . . It is very clear that there were legendary accretions throughout | the Gospels (i.e. not just in the Resurrection). The question is, does | this affect the believability of the accounts? I claim that it doesn't. | . . . As an engineer, I have a hard time with such statements. This is equivalent to a data sheet which claims that the Fleabite FL123 microprocessor can run "up to 20 MHz," but also specifies that the clock must have rise and fall times controlled to a minimum of 50 nanoseconds! [If you had 50 ns risetime and 50 ns falltime, with no flat spot either on top or bottom, the maximum clock rate would be 10 MHz -- with a triangular (!!!) clock. . . Would *you* buy such a part?] What are the consequences of believing something that is false? Suppose I fall for the salesman's line and design the FL123 into a new product? Then, when the circuit boards are built, I find it doesn't work! (It turns out there were some "legendary accretions" in the data sheet.) At best, I will have an enormous hassle re-designing the board with another microprocessor. At worst, I might lose my job. What are the consequences of believing in Christ, if Christianity is indeed false? At best, I am wasting my time and my money on ritualistic veneration of something false. I am out of touch with reality! At worst, I may throw away my very life following commandments that are figments of some deranged imagination. What did it profit the Dutch Christians who died hiding Jewish families from the Nazis? Jesus is recorded as saying: For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his own soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. Matthew 16:25-27 (NIV) Presumably, this means that (among other things) Jesus is going to reward these heroic souls for sacrificing their lives in order to save others (hmmm. . . sounds sort of Gospel-like, doesn't it?). But how do we know this is not one more "legendary accretion"? Is Jesus really going to return and reward those who have followed Him to the death? Or is this all fantasy? How confident can we be if the prime source for information about Jesus is filled with "legendary accretions"? All through Scripture, there are claims that these writings have a special character -- they are the Word of God, and thus are Truth (not just "true," which implies correspondence to prevailing reality, but "Truth," a revelation of the universal verities from which reality is derived). Further, Scripture claims there is evidence to support the validity of its assertions. In the Old Testament, the test of a prophet was correct predictions: If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. Deuteronomy 18:22 (NIV) Jesus also used the correctness of predictions as a guarantee of validity (John 13:19). In addition, He claimed the miracles He performed validated His mission and His message: If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. John 15:24 (NIV) In the face of Scripture's emphasis on its own validity, am I supposed to order my life on its precepts, when it is "very clear that there were legendary accretions throughout the Gospels"??? No way!! If it isn't true, it isn't worth the powder to blow it across the room. [In fact, I have examined the evidence and believe that there is strong reason to accept the validity of Scripture. (The questions Vasu Murty asked are easily answered, and cast no shadows over Scripture. See my previous article on Vasu's questions for more details.)] I can understand how Mike could reject the claims of Scripture entirely (at least, that seems to be the tone of his message). I can understand how one can accept Scripture's claims about itself [after all, I do, so it's intuitively obvious. . . 8^) ]. But how can anyone trust something that demands obedience to its precepts and sacrifice up to and including one's very life, yet is filled with "legendary accretions" and is thus inherently (and potentially fatally) untrustworthy? Steve Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- {decvax | hplabs | ihnp4 | uw-beaver}!tektronix!videovax!stever