Muffy@arisia.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) (10/09/86)
In article <1169@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU> cheryl@batcomputer.UUCP (cheryl) writes: >In article <455@cci632.UUCP> rb@ccird1.UUCP (Rex Ballard) writes: >>Cruel? Perhaps, but also realistic. A promotion worth 10% to a partner >>making $40,000 might cost the other partner making $10,000, 10%. Net gain >>for the parnership, $3,000. > >Net gain for the 10K half of the partnership: $500.00. > >Can you spell "Trickle Down?" > >The humiliation associated with making $10K is to be exacerbated >by demanding that the person take a cut in pay to $9K. > >The recompense is that the person may get $1500 from the person >he or she sleeps with, a net gain of $500.00 in a year for >sleeping with someone...pretty low wages for *that* profession! > > >Cheryl The (somewhat hypothetical) situation: I'm living with my mother, who makes $40K. I'm doing filing, making $10K. As long as I live with my mother, she takes care of room and board, even though I could be supporting myself now. However, we like each other's company, and she doesn't mind that she's paying for most of the food, rent, etc. She gets an offer of a job across the country that pays 10% more, so she decides to move and says I can come along if I want to. I go with her, but I can only get a job paying 10% less. Have I been humiliated? Exact same situation, but substitue "SO" for "mother". What's the difference? Well, first, my mother gave birth to me (responsible for my life). Of course, she's already supported me for my entire life, and at this point I could be self-supporting, so she really has no more obligation to support me than an SO. Also, I'm not sleeping with my mother, so it's unlikely that anyone could think she was "keeping" me (*grin*). My mother is "family," unlike my SO. However, I feel a lot closer to my SO than my family, and I feel that I can depend on him just as much as I can depend on them (and he can depend on me as much as they can). Certainly, I should be somewhat embarassed to be supported by anyone if I really can support myself. However, I am going to college so as to be able to do the work I want to do and support myself better than I would otherwise. I tried working 40hrs/week and going to school and was exhausted. I much prefer working 20hrs, going to school, and being (*smile*) kept (for the time being). When I graduate, I'll work full time and my SO might go to graduate school. Meanwhile, if he could get a job he preferred to his current one, I would do my best to stay with him (although with one semester to graduation, I might stick here for another 6 months and then move). The point of going with him would not be because of the money, though...it would be because he is very important to me. Muffy Muffy@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA (really CERRIDWYN.SSF.SYMBOLICS.COM, but this doesn't work right (yet? ever?)) muffy@arisia.berkeley.edu, muffy%arisia@Berkeley.EDU, muffy%arisia@ucbjade.BITNET {ihnp4,decvax,decwrl,sun,etc}!ucbvax!arisia!muffy
whitehur@tymix.UUCP (Pamela K. Whitehurst) (10/10/86)
In article <1397@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Muffy@arisia.UUCP (Muffy Barkocy) writes: >The (somewhat hypothetical) situation: I'm living with my mother, who makes >$40K. I'm doing filing, making $10K. As long as I live with my mother, she >takes care of room and board, even though I could be supporting myself now. >However, we like each other's company, and she doesn't mind that she's paying >for most of the food, rent, etc. She gets an offer of a job across the country >that pays 10% more, so she decides to move and says I can come along if I want >to. I go with her, but I can only get a job paying 10% less. Have I been >humiliated? > >Exact same situation, but substitue "SO" for "mother". What's the difference? >Well, first, my mother gave birth to me (responsible for my life). Of course, >she's already supported me for my entire life, and at this point I could be >self-supporting, so she really has no more obligation to support me than an >SO. Also, I'm not sleeping with my mother, so it's unlikely that anyone >could think she was "keeping" me (*grin*). My mother is "family," unlike my >SO. However, I feel a lot closer to my SO than my family, and I feel that I >can depend on him just as much as I can depend on them (and he can depend on >me as much as they can). > Another difference: your mother is probably not planning on a long term live-in situation. As a parent, one of my goals is to see that my child becomes a self-supporting adult. For some span of time we will be separate households tied together by caring. Our individual choices of things such as children, careers, and living locations will have minimal impact on each others future. [Her complaints about effects on inheritance will be ignored :-)] The realtionship between SOs is different if they are planning for a long term, live-together relationship. Their choices have a greater effect on each other. Usually they are moving toward a mutually-supporting relationship instead of self-supporting one. >Certainly, I should be somewhat embarassed to be supported by anyone if I >really can support myself. However, I am going to college so as to be able >to do the work I want to do and support myself better than I would otherwise. >I tried working 40hrs/week and going to school and was exhausted. I much >prefer working 20hrs, going to school, and being (*smile*) kept (for the time >being). When I graduate, I'll work full time and my SO might go to graduate >school. Meanwhile, if he could get a job he preferred to his current one, I >would do my best to stay with him (although with one semester to graduation, >I might stick here for another 6 months and then move). The point of going >with him would not be because of the money, though...it would be because he >is very important to me. And would your opinions change if he chose a job without considering your future in the area? I don't object to making sacrifices for a relationship, but both people have to make sacrifices, and both have to eventually gain. It does not have to be a monitary gain, it does have to be valuable to the receiver. > > Muffy > >Muffy@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA (really CERRIDWYN.SSF.SYMBOLICS.COM, but > this doesn't work right (yet? ever?)) >muffy@arisia.berkeley.edu, muffy%arisia@Berkeley.EDU, >muffy%arisia@ucbjade.BITNET >{ihnp4,decvax,decwrl,sun,etc}!ucbvax!arisia!muffy -- Disclaimer: This is just my responding, with an ambiguous language, to what someone else wrote, in an ambiguous language. At no time did I read anyone's mind to find out what they really meant. Pamela K. Whitehurst ...!hplabs!oliveb!tymix!whitehur ...!sun!idi!tymix!whitehur "Yes, it is bread we fight for, but we fight for roses too."
barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) (10/11/86)
[] One quick quibble with an otherwise fine article: From: Muffy@arisia.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy): >Certainly, I should be somewhat embarassed to be supported by anyone if I >really can support myself. I don't think you should. It's a fact of life that not all useful work is properly compensated. Being a homemaker is the best example. You get no paycheck, but you're still pulling your weight. Kayembee
Muffy@arisia.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) (10/14/86)
In article <844@tymix.UUCP> whitehur@tymix.UUCP (Pamela K. Whitehurst) writes: >In article <1397@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Muffy@arisia.UUCP (Muffy Barkocy) writes: >> [me on differences between my mother making more money than me and my SO >> making more money than me] > >Another difference: your mother is probably not planning on a long term >live-in situation. As a parent, one of my goals is to see that my child >becomes a self-supporting adult. For some span of time we will be separate >households tied together by caring. Our individual choices of things such >as children, careers, and living locations will have minimal impact >on each others future. [Her complaints about effects on inheritance will >be ignored :-)] > True, but as long as I *am* living with her (and moving with her), her career/moving/living choices *will* have an effect on me. >The realtionship between SOs is different if they are planning for >a long term, live-together relationship. Their choices have a greater >effect on each other. Usually they are moving toward a mutually-supporting >relationship instead of self-supporting one. > I should hope so! and I think this answers your question further down... > >And would your opinions change if he chose a job without considering >your future in the area? I don't object to making sacrifices for >a relationship, but both people have to make sacrifices, and both >have to eventually gain. It does not have to be a monitary gain, >it does have to be valuable to the receiver. > Which opinions? About being willing to move along with him? Not really, because if we really are working on a "mutually-supporting relationship", he wouldn't act that way, and if he did, I would guess that our relation- ship was not what I thought it was, and I would indeed have a lot of things to reconsider. > Pamela K. Whitehurst Muffy Muffy@SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA (really CERRIDWYN.SSF.SYMBOLICS.COM, but this doesn't work right (yet? ever?)) muffy@arisia.berkeley.edu, muffy%arisia@Berkeley.EDU, muffy%arisia@ucbjade.BITNET {ihnp4,decvax,decwrl,sun,etc}!ucbvax!arisia!muffy