mjn@panda.UUCP (Mark J. Norton) (02/28/85)
In reply to both Elizabeth and Dan Davidson:
You are no doubt aware that there are several members of NESFA on
USENET, myself included. Stating from the outset that it is quite
clear that NESFA is not perfect, I will address some of the things
stated previously.
Running a Con Year after Year:
-----------------------------
Based on several things both of you said it is fairly clear
that you have not helped to run or organize a convention. See that
little 22 after the Boskone in the subject line above? It means that
NESFA has been trying to put out a good convention for 22 years. Don't
you thing that it might be a little tough to be original and different
year after year?
You also mentioned being jaded with program material. That happens,
but I think difference lies in your change attitudes and perceptions,
rather than quality of programming slipping. I've become very tired of
listening to the same old panels every year. As a result, I don't
attend them anymore. On the other hand, I appreciate the Boskone Art
Show more with each passing year. A con is what you make of it. Work
at it some.
Resistration Fee (How can they be so greedy?):
---------------------------------------------
Both you and Dan mention $22 being steep for registration. How many
other conventions do you attend. I'm not talking about Star Trek cons in
Portland, Maine, but big regionals: Disclave, Westercon, Maplecon, etc.
I think you'd find that they run about the same or more for the weekend.
(This doesn't even come close to $50 for a worldcon!)
Were does all the money go? You might be surprised at some of the
costs involved in running a big con. Rentals, printing, flying in GOH,
postal rates (hmm, 22c), rooms to get, etc, etc. NESFA is a non-profit
organization. The budget for Boskone every year is designed to break
even. Each year an estimate is made of how many people will attend the
convention. This times the con rate is how much money can be budgeted.
Now when we come down to it, if this year's con attracts a lot of
people, the convention makes a profit. On the other hand, if fewer than
predicted show up, it looses money. NESFA has been concerned about the
later for years. Part of the profits (if any) from previous cons goes
towards an insurance fund to help bail out the eventual Big Money Loser.
Weekend vs Daily Rates:
----------------------
This has been a topic of discussion for years in NESFA. It usually
comes down to this: its too much work to try and organize and check for
one day badges. Consider: four different kinds of badges are needed.
One for each day of the con, and one for the whole weekend. Stamps
stickers, etc are too small and have been shown to not work well. Thus,
as unfortunate as it is for some people, one rate is charged.
In the past, this has been moderated somewhat. If by Sunday,
membership in the con is a little below predicted numbers, a discount
might be offered for just Sunday. By then, no special badges are needed.
In recent years, however, not enough people isn't the problem, its too
many people.
Keeping out the Riff Raff:
-------------------------
Boskone as a convention is set up and organized by about 30 people.
These same people are responsible for there being anything at all, much
less living up the quality we see year after year. At the con, however,
these people are only managers. The people who REALLY run the con are
fans. Volunteers, hundreds of them. If it weren't for these people
who given up a little piece of the con (which they paid for), it would
fail miserably.
Thus we come to it. NESFA cannot handle well a convention were
too many people attend. Volunteers do not seem to increase linearly
with the number of attendees. More people means more disorganization.
The facilites are arranged for optimal numbers. More people cause
breakdowns in flow, control, and timing.
For the past several years NESFA has been trying various ways to
keep the number of people attending a Boskone to a reasonable number.
They truly want to keep the quality high and that means keep the numbers
small. One way to cut numbers is to not have daily rates. Its some
what unfortunately that this cuts out people who cannot afford full
weekend rates, but it helps. Another method tried is altering content
of the film program. Since Star Trek and other big media productions
have their own specialty cons, they have been removed from Boskones.
In a sense, as soon as you try to exclude people to keep numbers
from getting too large, discrimination enters. NESFA has been trying
very hard to handle this in the most reasonable way possible. One
other thing to remember here. The members of NESFA who put on a
Boskone are volunteers too. They are doing their best to organize
something for your enjoyment. If you have a criticism or suggestion,
tell them. They will listen. There was even two items on the program
for fan feedback. Did you attend?
NESFA's Clubhouse Search:
------------------------
In closing, I'd like to say a few things about NESFA search for a
clubhouse. It is true that we are looking for one. Priced a house
lately? Commerical space of the size NESFA needs runs even more. Its
a lot harder to find a building which suits the requirements too. The
search has been going on actively for almost 2 years. We came very
close recently (money was put down), but the deal fell through from the
seller's side. It was quite disappointing.
Where does the money for such an acquisition come from? Money for
the NESFA clubhouse is being gathered from donations to a building
fund and a realty trust fund. Donations (and proceeds from auctions,
etc) have come to about 12K. Add in sale of bonds (mostly to members)
and the total comes to about 60K.
Wait a minute! What about all those profits from Boskone?!? As
far as I know, none of the money generated by previous Boskones is
put into the building fund. NONE! Profits (what there is) does go
towards operating expenses of NESFA. Some of it goes towards purchase
of equipment to run future Boskones and some of it is donated to SF
related causes (TAFF, club membership in worldcon, Reading for the Blind,
etc.) Where is all of this NESFA greed of which you speak?
Mark J. Norton
decvax!genrad!{panda | teddy}!mjnbarry@mit-eddie.UUCP (Mikki Barry) (03/01/85)
First off, I would like to say that I enjoyed Boskone 22 (for the most part). The Art Show was excellent, the hucksters room had space to move in, the movie room was quite adequate, even for Dr. Jeckyl. However, I must protest the movies, and interface with the hotel. The movies were quite horrible this year. The only good ones were the silent, the slide show (Phil Folio, et al), and Jitlov. Otherwise, it seemed like the same shorts were shown, and the feature films were really lacking. Even if nobody showed Star Trek, etc., I am sure that better movies could have been found. Interface with the hotel being lacking is understandable. Given that the Marriott didn't quite expect 3000+ lunatics roaming the corridors til dawn, it is amazing that things went as smoothly as they did. However, a BIG problem (for fen with any bucks at all), was the dress code in the restaurants. NESFA really should have checked this out beforehand, and either warned us to dress in a manner befitting those who spend lots of money for a beer, or (even better) informing the hotel of the manner of fan attending conventions, and getting them to relax the rules for the duration. (Yes, I realize that one restaurant allowed scruffy fen in, but it wasn't quite enough. Programming also wasn't too hot, but I agree with the assumption that we may be "growing out of" some of it. After all, how many panels on world building do you want to go to. There will always be problems with hotels, elevators, restaurants, unruly fans, etc. Taking all into consideration, NESFA did a good job again this year. Now if they can only get some better movies....
barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (03/03/85)
Barry and I have been attending BOSKONE (coming out from Los Angeles to do so) for over ten years. As old fans, we don't bother attending programs, preferring to save our waking hours for the core period of 5PM - 3AM. We're far too busy meeting our East Coast friends (for a precious 3-5 days a year) to want to sit in chairs and listen to panels or movies. AS a hotel site, we preferred the old Sheraton, with its large rooms and dependable elevators and nearby mall. The new Marriot isn't bad either, particularly if you dress mundanely enough not to run into any dress code problems. (From what we can tell, restaurants ended up mainly discriminating against young fans and costume ball participants.) We very much liked access to the Copley Place and Westin Hotels, and I understand that the structure may be extended up to the Sheraton/Prudential Center Complex someday which would be even nicer. Once upon a time (perhaps still), NESFA used to do advance work in the hotel-- tipping maids/waiters/etc. to make up for the fact that fans are notoriously undertippers. Perhaps before next year's Boskone, NESFA might do a little spadework as to which local restaurants are willing to serve strangely clad people--and have it so announced in the convention daily, thereby getting significantly more business. And which restaurants aren't willing to do so-- so even the mundanely clad could boycott them. The hotel elevators were horrible. At one point we found ourselves stalled for 30 minutes awaiting one in ANY direction. But then most hotel elevators break down/get jammed by sf conventions. We enjoyed Boskone tremendously in spite of it all. --Lee & Barry Gold
grady@ucbvax.ARPA (Steven Grady) (03/09/85)
net.sf-lovers.boskone, perhaps? Steven Grady
lazeldes@wlcrjs.UUCP (Leah A Zeldes) (03/16/85)
In article <331@panda.UUCP> mjn@panda.UUCP (Mark J. Norton) writes: > >Running a Con Year after Year: >----------------------------- > Based on several things both of you said it is fairly clear >that you have not helped to run or organize a convention.... Don't >you thing that it might be a little tough to be original and different >year after year? Having been on the committee of several regionals (most notably AutoClave and ConFusion in Michigan), I can say, yes, it's a little tough -- but it certainly isn't impossible. Partly it involves saying no to some of the "easy" regulars and putting some new people on the panels. But mostly it needs fresh ideas from the committee, people who are doing the programming job because they're interested in programming *not* because it's prestigious to be on the committee. I did not attend this year's Boskone, so I can't say if this really was a problem. But I *have* heard this flame a lot, and from people who know about conventions. > You also mentioned being jaded with program material. That happens, >but I think difference lies in your change attitudes and perceptions, >rather than quality of programming slipping. I've become very tired of >listening to the same old panels every year. As a result, I don't >attend them anymore. Yes, but that's a problem with the con, not you -- the programming should be interesting to the old-fans-and-tired as well as the neos; if it's not, than the con hasn't done a good job. If you program every year with "Oh, the regulars won't go to the programming anyway" in mind, you're going to have the same old stuff, and too many cons do this. If you're only going to provide it for the neos, why bother to have programming at all, especially when you're trying to keep the "riff raff" out? So the pros can have a tax deduction? > ...A con is what you make of it. Work at it some. That's true. But a bad con can make it hard... >Resistration Fee (How can they be so greedy?): >--------------------------------------------- > [As for] $22 being steep for registration. How many other >conventions do you attend. I'm not talking about Star Trek cons in >Portland, Maine, but big regionals: Disclave, Westercon, Maplecon, etc. >I think you'd find that they run about the same or more for the weekend. >(This doesn't even come close to $50 for a worldcon!) Yes, but that doesn't mean it isn't steep. The cost of convention memberships has escalated far beyond the rate of inflation, mostly starting from MAC's "keep the riff raff out" $50 policy in '76. Average membership prices have more than quadrupled since then. > Were does all the money go? This year it seems to have generated a tidy profit of $30K for NESFA (Per NESFA's clubzine, Instant Message, 2/28). > NESFA is a non-profit organization. The budget for Boskone every year >is designed to break even. Blew it, this year, didn't you? And last year, too. And the year before that.... > On the other hand, if fewer than predicted show up, it looses money. >NESFA has been concerned about the later for years. Part of the >profits (if any) from previous cons goes towards an insurance fund >to help bail out the eventual Big Money Loser. After 22 years, you'd think there'd be enough socked away that NESFA could lay off a little. At last count, you had more than $90K, not counting profits from this year's con. A big loss might delay the clubhouse a little, that's all. >Weekend vs Daily Rates: >---------------------- > ...its too much work to try and organize and check for >one day badges. Consider: four different kinds of badges are needed. Oh, it's not that much trouble. You get a bunch of stick-on labels (The "Hi, my name is" type will do, but you can have them printed with "Boskone #whatever" if you're fussy) and three different colored magic markers. On Friday, you mark "FRI" in big, red letters on the stickers; on Saturday, you mark "SAT" in green, and so on... If you use Hilighter-type markers the people will be able to write their names over the lettering, but it isn't necessary. When you're running a circus as big as Boskone, who cares what anybody's name is? (At Minicon last year, registration made you write your name on your badge in front of them, as if it would make any difference -- if the gofer watching the con suite doesn't know me, how's he going to know that somebody else is wearing my nametag?) >Keeping out the Riff Raff: >------------------------- Ah, now we come down to it! > For the past several years NESFA has been trying various ways to >keep the number of people attending a Boskone to a reasonable number. >...One way to cut numbers is to not have daily rates. Its some >what unfortunately that this cuts out people who cannot afford full >weekend rates, but it helps. Yes, but did you advertise that you weren't going to have one-days? If you did, and people didn't buy memberships at the pre-con rate, then it's their own fault, but if you didn't, then people have a right to be annoyed. >NESFA's Clubhouse Search: >------------------------ > > Where does the money for such an acquisition come from? Money for >the NESFA clubhouse is being gathered from donations to a building >fund and a realty trust fund. Donations (and proceeds from auctions, >etc) have come to about 12K. Add in sale of bonds (mostly to members) >and the total comes to about 60K. That's interesting. Instant Message reports more than $52K in the building fund and $40K in the trust. How did that get there? > Wait a minute! What about all those profits from Boskone?!? As >far as I know, none of the money generated by previous Boskones is >put into the building fund. NONE! No, but discussion in Instant Message of the building purchase seemed to indicated the club was perfectly willing to spend it on the clubhouse anyway. How else could NESFA plan to put $100,000 down, when at the time they only had about $80,900 between the fund and the trust? "...NESFA's current income [is in] three categories: Boskone, interest, and everything else....Boskone makes about $20k a year. After purchasing the building most of the interest income would go away....Worst case yearly operating figures after purchasing the building [$19,500]...is about the amount Boskone now brings in." [Instant Message, 2/7, p. 15] > Profits (what there is) does go towards operating expenses of NESFA. >Some of it goes towards purchase of equipment to run future Boskones >and some of it is donated to SF related causes (TAFF, club membership >in worldcon, Reading for the Blind, etc.) This really uses up $20K a year?! >Where is all of this NESFA greed of which you speak? Well, there is the matter of -- why does NESFA need a clubouse, anyway? To keep up with LASFS? > = Mark J. Norton [ decvax!genrad!{panda | teddy}!mjn] --------------------------------------------------------- | ONLY SLIGHTLY COMMERCIAL PLUG | | | | If you're interested in this sort of smoffery, | | you should know about UNCLE DICK'S: The | | Gossipzine, which regularly features smoffish | | discussion along with fannish news and gossip. | | | | UNCLE DICK'S 10 features L.A.con II finances, | | ConStellation updates, a new fan cult, | | Worldcon bidding news, fans' mundane lives, | | and other information no trufan should be | | without. [Note: This is a fanzine about | | fandom; science fiction books and other pro | | news subjects are not covered.] | | | | Sample issue: $1 Five issues: $3.95 | | | | Write: UNCLE DICK'S, Richard H.E. Smith II, | | 2007 W. 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