his@faron.UUCP (Howard Irwin Solomon) (09/19/86)
In article <5389@decwrl.DEC.COM> Ray writes: > GAY/STRAIGHT INTEGRATION: > > > Another thing would be that it would have to be a very open, accepting > society where gay couples could hold hands, walk arm in arm amongst the > straight in the same bar. Since the het boys are looking gayer than we > nowadays, what would happen if some poor unsuspecting gay guy asks a > non gay guy to dance, or perish the thought....to go home with him. The > straight guy would have to be comfortable with himself to politely > decline and say something like, "gee sorry but I'm straight, but good luck > in your search", or, "I'de like you to meet my wife Doris. Hey Doris isn't > one of your gay single friends here tonight? Why don't we introduce X to Y". > I don't see this as happening. There would be lesbians showing interest in > het women, etc, etc.....all very confusing without a program. I just feel > that we *do* need places we can call our own turf, sure maybe bring along > non gay friends, but I don't believe in totally integrating everything. Ray- Once again, I am sent back to my Brandeis dance example. I find it hard to believe that Brandeis students are so much more reasonable than the world at large. (I have an ex-roommate from freshman year to back up this claim - homophobia should probably be his middle name) At one of these dances, and I recommend any Bostonians (or environs) to attend one, I asked a person from my hometown of whom I knew nothing more than his name and the fact that he was attractive. He politely said no thank you and went over to dance with one of his friends (female). No problem encountered at all. At another dance, I was surprised when I asked one of my straight friends to dance and he said, "Sure, what the hell." I have yet to see any problem at one of our dances although I am sure the potential is there. These dances are well-advertised on campus and the worst thing that I know of happening is that the signs are often torn down and need to be replaced. I can respect people's need for a "gay place". I see nothing wrong with that, and I sometimes like to "escape" the straight world as well. However, I see a pleasant and mixed environment as a better one and have seen its roots. I look forward to the day when this is more mainstream and accepted. I would like to see a dance where anyone could ask anyone else to dance as the standard not the exception. > A few years back (when I had lotsa gay friends of both sexes) a group > of them went to a Tres Chic Back Bay straight club. Well some of the gay males > and gay females paired off and started dancing. It didn't take long before > the males were asked to cease and desist from dancing or get thrown out, > the women were left alone until it was discovered they were Lesbian. I have > seen it over the years, a straight couple wanders into Chaps, etc and I've > seen the guy especially making subtle little obnoxious gestures, like bumping > into gay couples dancing. There's a double standard here, it's ok for them to > dance in our Cha Cha palaces, but verbotten for us to do same in theirs. It > would just take some massive education for the two tribes to mix. I hear tell > that this arrangement works in New York City. Anyone have any input as to how > well gays/non gays mix in the Big Apple with lack of trouble. Yes, it does take education, lots of it. But that is no reason to give up. I agree that we seem to have a double standard here. But, someone has to make the first gesture and hope to educate/convince others to follow. If we are seen as open to their inclusion, it may help to someday be welcome in "their places". This may just be a dream of mine, but I think it is a just one and I have no intention of giving it up. > You could call Nausea, New Hampster an integrated society; sure I can go into > their drinking establishments and see other gay men in abundance, but the > unspoken rule is "Don't come near me, I don't want to raise suspicion". So it > would also take education in gay people, that the masses accept us and it's ok > to hold hands on Main Street in Nausea. I don't see this as happening in my > time.....too bad! > yes, it seems that many times the gay world needs as much education as the straight, if not more. Again, that is no reason to give up. > 29" waist due to healthful suburban living. One thing I've learned is that > there is still a lot of ignorance out there, even among the well educated. > Yes, this is a given. it is amazing how little some people know about certain issues and how little many of them care to imporve on that knowledge. I will use my mother as an example (Sorry, Mom.) She is the more supportive of my two parents (both know I am gay) but she still knows virtually nothing about homosexuality be it clinically, emotionally or socially. We had one discussion about AIDS and she said something to the effect of : The disease must be quite contagious or there wouldn't be such an uproar in the public school system about children with AIDS attending schools. Schools don't do something like that unless there is a real problem. She was willing to listen, and I explained some of the truths about AIDS (my other half is a doctor making that kind of discussion fairly easy). She was more than willing to learn, but without me, there was no way for her to learn unless she actively sought it out which she felt she had no reason to do. If a caring, concerned person can harbor this misinformation, imagine what an ignorant fool would think. It is somewhat scary! > The party will be beer and wine only (sorry) since our landlord > does not allow hard liquor in the building. You need not be from New > Hampshire to attend and show support. Anyone interested in penciling > in this date can either send me mail or call at home after 6pm at > (603) 888-5840, leave message on machine. After the final posting, > I will send directions to those RSVPing "Aye!" > > > Later, Ray The party sounds like fun. Keep me posted, I'd like to see what life in NH is like. Howard
rob@ptsfb.UUCP (Rob Bernardo) (09/21/86)
>Once again, I am sent back to my Brandeis dance example. I find it hard to >believe that Brandeis students are so much more reasonable than the world at >large. (I have an ex-roommate from freshman year to back up this claim - I would find it hard to believe if Brandeis students were *not* substantially much more reasonable than the *country* as large. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they were generally from well-educated, upper middle class homes, from North-eastern metropolitan areas, and many (if not most, I'd guess) Jewish. Howard, I think you live in an isolated environment. :-) :-) -- Rob Bernardo, San Ramon, CA "Whenever I get the urge to work, (415) 823-2417 I log in and read the netnews {pyramid|ihnp4|dual}!ptsfa!rob until the feeling passes."