[soc.motss] AIDS question

nazgul@apollo.uucp (Kee Hinckley) (09/22/86)

In article <1530@mtx5a.UUCP> mat@mtx5a.UUCP writes:
> With the exception of insecticides used against species that have the
> immediate potential for severe damage to people and the environment (the
> Karpa beetle and methyl bromide), insecticides approved for use today are
> self-destructing when exposed to the environment.

Absolutely not true.  There are a number of insecticides that are currently
used on crops that do NOT break down.  Some of these were originally thought
to be safe, others are applied regardless of the fact.

I came into this discussion in the middle, but I gather someone was 
proposing using insecticides to wipe out a disease carrying insect.

    o   No application will reach all of the insects.  (In Africa some
        malaria carrying mosquitos breed in the puddles left by cow
        hooves.  Are you going to hit every cow hoof puddle in Africa
        with an insecticide?)
    o   No insectide will kill all of the insects.  A certain
        percentage will survive, and their descendants will be even
        more likely to survive.

                                              -kee



--

            ...{mit-eddie,yale,uw-beaver,decvax!wanginst}!apollo!nazgul
               Apollo Computer, Chelmsford MA.  (617) 256-6600 x7587
                   or 499B Boston Rd, Groton MA. (617) 448-2863

I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.

geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff) (09/24/86)

In article <303f1d1e.46@apollo.uucp> nazgul@apollo.UUCP (Kee Hinckley) writes:
>
>Absolutely not true.  There are a number of insecticides that are currently
>used on crops that do NOT break down.  Some of these were originally thought
>to be safe, others are applied regardless of the fact.
>
>                                              -kee

This is a good point, but there is one thing that bothers me about the whole
idea of insect eradication.  Suppose we found the perfect insecticide which
kills all of the insects in the area and is totally harmless to people.
Wonderful.  The only problem is that there is an entire food chain with
insects at the bottom.  The insecticides might not hurt the birds, but
lack of insects to eat sure might.  And flowering plants which rely on insects
for cross-pollenization.  And lots of consequences we don't even forsee.

	Things would have to be awfully bad before this scenario would be
preferable....

-- 

		geoff sherwood
		...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!geoff
		...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!geoff

mat@mtx5a.UUCP (m.terribile) (09/25/86)

> In article <1530@mtx5a.UUCP> mat@mtx5a.UUCP writes:
> > With the exception of insecticides used against species that have the
> > immediate potential for severe damage to people and the environment (the
> > Karpa beetle and methyl bromide), insecticides approved for use today are
> > self-destructing when exposed to the environment.
> 
> Absolutely not true.  There are a number of insecticides that are currently
> used on crops that do NOT break down.  Some of these were originally thought
> to be safe, others are applied regardless of the fact.
> 
> I came into this discussion in the middle, but I gather someone was 
> proposing using insecticides to wipe out a disease carrying insect.

The original question was they hypothetical  `what if we found that AIDS
has a significant insect transmission vector?'  My response was that if
the incidence of the disease became great enough, we might have to consider
complete indoor quarantine of the affected individuals, as well as loading
their living areas with as much insecticide as it appeared that they could
stand for as long as they were likely to live, and that we would have to
consider ``environmentally disasterous'' use of pesticides as well, in order
to keep ourselves from being killed off completely.  It was a hypothetical
question, and I don't think that anyone here would like to be faced with the
choices.

My understanding is that, except in cases where *no substitute at all exists*,
all pesticides must degrade rapidly in the environment, and that no new
pesticide would be approved unless it met this critera.  Is this incorrect?
-- 

	from Mole End			Mark Terribile
		(scrape .. dig )	mtx5b!mat
					(Please mail to mtx5b!mat, NOT mtx5a!
						mat, or to mtx5a!mtx5b!mat)
					(mtx5b!mole-end!mat will also reach me)
    ,..      .,,       ,,,   ..,***_*.