mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu (Mike Folsom) (07/31/90)
In article <8250@pitt.UUCP> rozin@speedy.cs.pitt.edu.UUCP (Roman Rozin) writes: > >It is not necessary to know the particular mechanism, to know that there >is *some* mechanism at work there. There are cases of homosexual behavior >in lower animals too. For examle, lesbian gulls, described in >R.L. Trivers's _Social Evolution_. I was just about to add this to the discussion. There ARE cases of what can be called homosexuality in various groups of animals other than man. I have heard of reports in cattle ( can you imagine buying a $20,000 gay bull ) and insects. Infact there is a mutation called "rape" in the fruit fly where a male tries to mount and copulate with another male. I really don't like the name "rape" for this mutation but it exists. To add my two cents. I have been keeping an informal record fo MZ lesgay twins for years. So far out of about 6 MZ twins I have found only one who "says" that his brother is straight. I'm starting to wonder if homosexuality isn't a mix of genetics and environment. This is not my area but I've always wondered about pheromones and if they have any involvement in the whole process. I believe in some group of animals it has been shown that males and females emit different pheromones. WHAT IF ( and I admit its a big if ) males usually are attracted to one set of pheromones, those of the females, and females to another set, those of the males. If such a thing were true then any change in the human genome which caused a change in the ability to perceive a pheromone or, alternately, any change in the genome that would cause an individual to be only attracted to "self" pheromone could affect their sexual orientation. In a similar vein if the change simply destroyed the ability to perceive a pheromone or caused an individual to be attracted to all pheromones then they could be bisexual. Since Kinsey (sp) said, as I remember the numbers, that most people are bisexual then most folks would "key in" on both "sets" of pheromones. Which one attracted them the most would be the one that would "control" their sexual orientation. Anyway, as I said this is not my area but I've been thinking about this for some time. Comments, corrections, etc - Now, be kind! Mike F. (mwfolsom@unmvm -=-or-=- mwfolsom@unmvm.unm.edu)
david@gladys.UUCP (David Dalton) (07/31/90)
>In article <8250@pitt.UUCP> rozin@speedy.cs.pitt.edu.UUCP (Roman Rozin) writes: >Since Kinsey (sp) said, >as I remember the numbers, that most people are bisexual then most >folks would "key in" on both "sets" of pheromones. Which one >attracted them the most would be the one that would "control" their >sexual orientation. For AGES I have been looking for a study on pheromones and sexual orientation, but so far I haven't found anything. It would appear to be a really fruitful area for study. For example, we know that people who lose their sense of smell (nasal polyps, brain problems, etc.) often lose interest in sex. But mainly the idea intrigues me because of one of my earliest memories. I was about five years old. Our neighbors' washing machine had broken down, and they were doing laundry in our basement. I remember being in the basement alone and seeing their laundry, neatly sorted, in piles on the floor. There were two teen-age daughters and one teen-age son in the household. I didn't have the slightest curiosity about the girls' clothing, but I was very curious about the boy's. I picked up his jeans and sniffed them very thoroughly, and I found it very exciting in a way that I did not at all understand. I believe that, long before I understood sex and sexuality, this experience showed that I was already thoroughly oriented toward males, and that scent is an important cue. These sorts of things happen on a very low level, mostly beneath consciousness, but I have tried to make myself as aware as possible of my reactions to other people's scents. If someone I like walks by, I often time my breathing to take in their scent. If someone I don't like, or who I find repulsive in some way, walks by, I often hold my breath so I won't have to smell them. If I like a woman, I do enjoy her scent, but I don't find it erotically stimulating. I've been helplessly in love with a co-worker for five years. He's been dealing with a lot of stuff, but he's getting there. (Remember this one, Jess?) I think that the smell of him in close quarters is more tantalizing to me than the sight of him. And, to make things really difficult, he's in my house a lot these days, and he does his laundry here every week. I can't tell you what it does to me to come in and find his tennis things in the laundry room, waiting for him to come back and finish up. Or, when he house-sits for me, to come home to the scent of him in my bed. Or hot and sweaty, moving a bookcase. Or arriving after a long bicycle ride. What sweet torture... -- David Dalton pacbell!gladys!david mcnc!gladys!david
sfm@cbnewsl.att.com (stephen.frank.mershon) (08/01/90)
In article <1990Jul31.012219.3299@ariel.unm.edu>, mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu (Mike Folsom) writes: > > [various speculation on possible factors in sexual orientation] Much research has been done in this field. If you are interested in knowing what the experts say, send $1 and a large, self-addressed, stamped envelope to PFLAG, P.O. Box 20308, Denver, CO 80220. Ask for the pamphlet "Why Is My Child Gay?". This pamphlet summarizes the views of 11 leading scientists and provides a reading list referencing nine major published studies on the subject. To summarize a few of the findings: - the exact causes of a particular orientation are unknown - orientation is likely the result of interaction of genetic, hormonal, and environmental factors - psychological and social influences alone cannot cause a particular orientation - a biological predisposition toward a particular orientation is present at birth in all people - orientation cannot be changed permanently through therapy Steve Mershon stephen.mershon@att.com
jmast@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John M Allen) (08/02/90)
In article <1990Jul31.012219.3299@ariel.unm.edu> mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu (Mike Folsom) writes: > >To add my two cents. I have been keeping an informal record fo MZ >lesgay twins for years. So far out of about 6 MZ twins I have found >only one who "says" that his brother is straight. > Being a gay man with an identical twin, I thought that I would add my two cents worth. I think that part of the reason that there is not total concord between the sexualities of MZ twins is that people are forgetting to take some factors into account. One of these is that the genotype allows a range of phenotypes which could account for some of the discrepencies. Another complicating factor is that orientation is not equivalent to sexual behavior. My own situation is a case in point. I have had relationships with members of both sexes, but I have a distinct preference for men. As far as I know, my brother, J, has only had one relationship and that is with his wife. All other things being equal, this could be explained by assuming that our genotype was for bisexuality and various environmental influences pushed me toward the homosexual and J toward the heterosexual end of the spectrum. I think that this would partially explain why it took me so long to come out (at the age of 24). Some additional information changes the picture. J joined the Mormon Church during our freshman year in college. A book I am reading suggests that gay men who are trying to suppress their sexuality often join fundamentalists religions because the clear demarcation between good and evil helps them to maintain the demarcation between them and their sexuality making it easier to objectify and then reject this part of them. That J once told me, "I thought I was gay for awhile, but then I found religion," indicates that this may be the case here. I think that S, J's wife, recognizes, but is unwilling to admit, the possibility that J is gay. My brother, F, who is also gay, seems to get along quite well with S, but S seems to act very cold to me. The only reason I can see for this is that I am both gay and her husband's identical twin. I think that to her I embody the worst that could happen with J. To sum up, I feel that our genotype lies on the homosexual side of the spectrum and that our phenotype allows us to function as heterosexuals and may in fact mean that J is a true bisexual. J's involvement in the Mormon church helps him to suppress any homosexual feelings that he may have. \ | | John Allen \ \ || allen@mercutio.lcl.cmu.edu / \ jmast@unix.cis.pitt.edu "Some day I'll dance among the stars and shower burning desire among the clouds, but today I dance upon the earth and feel its mud between my toes and the wind blow through my soul." ---Ry Schwark
dgil@pa.reuter.COM (Dave Gillett) (08/02/90)
I'd be really interested in any information about pheromones in humans, too, especially since I'm anosmic....
dab5b@mendel.acc.Virginia.EDU (David A. Baxter) (08/03/90)
In article <294@saxony.pa.reuter.COM> dgil@pa.reuter.COM (Dave Gillett) writes: >I'd be really interested in any information about pheromones in humans, too, >especially since I'm anosmic.... Well, my understanding (from a radio newsreport) is that the human pheromone research that has been conducted has indicated that humans are INSENSITIVE to these chemicals. Of course, they only checked to see if males are attracted to female pheromones (and vice versa)... Talk about an un- balanced design! :) Anyway, if there is really a general interest in the subject, send me e-mail and I can do a computer search of the relevant literature and come up with what is currently known. Dave
urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) (08/05/90)
The summary says it all. :-)