[soc.misc] Down with engineerlish!

cherson@nonode.dec.com (David Cherson, WOO/D89 - 236-2229) (09/25/86)

 
>I was under the impression that "functionality" was a legal English word, until
>I was challenged to find it in a dictionary. I could not.  (Is there anyone who
>has a dictionary which *does* define it?)  What could I use instead  (features?
>functionalism???) in phrases like  "a description of a system's functionality",
>"this product has more functionality"?

You're right, there is no such word in the English language as "functionality".
But what's wrong with using the correct term - function?  This industry has
taken the English language and twisted it for it's own purposes.  If you think
that functionality is weird, then listen to a new one I heard the other day,
"productization".  Apparently this is being used to describe the process of
a product going the developing stages to market.

I don't know, I expect people who possess a college degree(even in 
engineering:-) to understand English.

David Cherson

edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) (09/26/86)

In article <5528@decwrl.DEC.COM> cherson@nonode.dec.com (David Cherson, WOO/D89 - 236-2229) writes:
>
> 
>>I was under the impression that "functionality" was a legal English word, until
>>I was challenged to find it in a dictionary. I could not.  (Is there anyone who
>>has a dictionary which *does* define it?)  What could I use instead  (features?
>>functionalism???) in phrases like  "a description of a system's functionality",
>>"this product has more functionality"?
>
>You're right, there is no such word in the English language as "functionality".
>But what's wrong with using the correct term - function?  This industry has
>taken the English language and twisted it for it's own purposes.  

    Are you trying to say that the English language is some how a
 complete language, meaning that all the words in the English language
 that can be defined have been ? The English language is a changing
 language. Some people might argue that one of the worst things that
 happened to the language was to freeze spellings of words when the
 pronounciation changed. This is what has made english one if not the
 most difficult language to spell. The sciences especially the new
 ones seem to create ( or butcher ) words for new ideas or concepts
 ( not everybody has studied latin these days). 
>
>I don't know, I expect people who possess a college degree(even in 
>engineering:-) to understand English.
>

     It seems they don't teach English anymore. It went out of fashion
 when the "New Math" came in. I know, I am a product of those schools.
 Of all my  +'s English takes its place in the rear. I'm trying to 
 compensate some how by getting a Master's in Lingustics. Its not that
 the ability isn't there, I can converse with no trouble in Japanese
 with almost any Native ( the almost is another story though).

 mark
-- 
    {allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!edwards
    UW-Madison, 1210 West Dayton St., Madison WI 53706

mike@mipos3.UUCP (Michael Bruck) (09/27/86)

In article <5528@decwrl.DEC.COM> cherson@nonode.dec.com (David Cherson, WOO/D89 - 236-2229) writes:
>I was under the impression that "functionality" was a legal English word, until
>I was challenged to find it in a dictionary. I could not.  (Is there anyone who
>has a dictionary which *does* define it?)  

On page 498 of Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, 1984:

Functional (adj) 1a: of, connected with, or being a function  b: affecting
physiological or psychological functions but not organic structure
<~ heart disease>  2: used to contribute to the development or maintenance
of a larger whole <~ and practical school courses>; also: designed and
developed chiefly from the point of view of use <~ clothing>  3: performing 
or able to perform a regular function -- functionality (n) functionally (adv)

-- 
	--Michael Bruck

Corporate CAD, Intel Corp, Santa Clara, California

UUCP:  ...{hplabs,decwrl,oliveb,amdcad}!intelca!mipos3!mike
CSNET: mike@mipos3.INTEL.COM

Work is the refuge of people who have nothing better to do.

The above views are personal.

steiny@scc.UUCP (09/27/86)

In article <5528@decwrl.DEC.COM>, cherson@nonode.dec.com (David Cherson, WOO/D89 - 236-2229) writes:
> 
>You're right, there is no such word in the English language as "functionality".

	As one of my linguistics professors would frequently say, "balderdash."

	Websters dicitonary does not contain the word "fuck", but it is
an English word.   Dictionaries are usually a bit behind the time and
they are simply lists of how people use words.    People made talked
and made up new words long before there were dicitionaries to catalog
the words.

-- 
scc!steiny
Don Steiny @ Don Steiny Software 
109 Torrey Pine Terrace
Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060
(408) 425-0382

jc@cdx39.UUCP (John Chambers) (09/29/86)

> >But what's wrong with using the correct term - function?  This industry has
> >taken the English language and twisted it for it's own purposes.  
> 
>     Are you trying to say that the English language is some how a
>  complete language, meaning that all the words in the English language
>  that can be defined have been? 
> >
> >I don't know, I expect people who possess a college degree(even in 
> >engineering:-) to understand English.
> >
> 
>  It seems they don't teach English anymore. It went out of fashion
>  when the "New Math" came in. 

Oh, boy, another language-flaming session!  Let's get it going fast;
hopefully it'll be as much fun as the last 27 of them!

[Hey, did he say "hopefully"?  Let's get 'im fer thet!]

Probably the definitive statement on the use [usage/utilization] of
English was in the musical My Fair Lady:

	Why, in America, they haven't spoken it [English] in years.

-- 
	John M Chambers 
Phone: 617/364-2000x7304
Email: ...{cthulhu,inmet,harvax,mit-eddie,mot[bos],rclex}!cdx39!{jc,news,root,usenet,uucp}
Smail: Codex Corporation; Mailstop C1-30; 20 Cabot Blvd; Mansfield MA 02048-1193
Telex: 922-443 CODEX A MNSF
Disclaimer:
	Opinions?  What opinions?  Them're all hard facks, buster!

dianeh@ism780c.UUCP (Diane Holt) (10/02/86)

In article <332@cdx39.UUCP> jc@cdx39.UUCP (John Chambers) writes:
>Probably the definitive statement on the use [usage/utilization] of
>English was in the musical My Fair Lady:
>
>	Why, in America, they haven't spoken it [English] in years.

My favorite has always been:

"And this thing you call 'language' -- you depend on it for so much, but are
 any of you really its master?"

Diane Holt
Interactive Systems Corp.
Santa Monica, CA
{seismo,decvax,cbosgd}!hplabs!sdcrdcf!ism780c!dianeh

"He who has thriven, may snooze or sleep till eleven."

safern@aecom2.UUCP (Eric Safern) (10/02/86)

> > You're right, there is no such word in the English language as "functionality".
> > But what's wrong with using the correct term - function?  This industry has
> > taken the English language and twisted it for it's own purposes.  If you think
> > that functionality is weird, then listen to a new one I heard the other day,
> > "productization".  Apparently this is being used to describe the process of
> > a product going the developing stages to market.
> 
> Real easy: "function" and "functionality" mean two different things.
> 
> A thing's function is its purpose.  Its functionality is the collection
> of things it is capable of doing.

	I spent this summer working at Bell Labs in Holmdel.  Each person
there must have used the word "functionality" at least twice a day (ok, I'm
exaggerating a little).   Last week I was reading the latest issue of The
Scientific American, and in an article on materials in communication the
author used and defined "functionality".  I said to myself, this man must
work at Bell Labs.  Sure enough, he is the vice president of Network Systems
for the Labs.  I think it's a pretty good word - he defined functionality as
the power of it's functions.  In other words, if an object does something,
it has function.  If it does something ***well***, it has functionality.
For example, both copper wire and fiber optics have roughly equivelent
functions, but the fiber has greater functionality (at least in some
applications).
-- 
  Eric Safern
  ...{ihnp4,rocky2,philabs,esquire,cucard,pegasus}!aecom!aecom2!safern

trb@ima.UUCP (Andrew Tannenbaum) (10/03/86)

In article <6128@alice.uUCp> ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) writes:
> > You're right, there is no such word in the English language as 
> > "functionality".

> Real easy: "function" and "functionality" mean two different things.

Functionality is in my dictionary.  (Under functional, Webster's Ninth
Collegiate Dictionary, Merriam-Webster 1983 red hardcover.)  If you like,
you can insist that it doesn't exist.  Humor yourself.

I say down with sweeping generalizations (NOT generalities).

To a programmer, initialize does not mean start.  To initialize means
to set variables to their initial values.  To a programmer, a variable
isn't just a parameter or an attribute.  When some haughty lexicographic
irregular poo-poos something she doesn't understand (technical jargon,
in this instance) just because she once saw some business woman with a
three piece suit and a shmatte around her neck use the word finalize,
all I can do is assume that she is complaining about something of which
she knows not.

Here are some ize verbs from /usr/lib/w2006.

	authorize capitalize characterize criticize
	generalize initialize minimize organize
	realize recognize stabilize summarize utilize

They all have nouns associated with them.  What arbiter of style
decided that it was ok to verbize these nouns, or nounize these verbs?

I hate the word finalize.  (Set variables to their final values?  ;-)
In fact, I have never heard an engineer use the word finalize, though I
have heard (pompous) engineering managers use the word, along with their
whole raft of silly catch phrases.  Yes, I'm generalizing.  So take me
to mod.legal.  Yes, there are engineers who are lousy writers and
communicators.  But I find that engineers, with their backgrounds in
problem solving, are often clear thinkers and communicators when compared
to people who you'd think would be better communicators - politicians,
sales, and marketing people.  When a person puts down "engineerlish" without
being quite specific, I just chalk it up to ignorance.

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Interactive   Boston, MA   +1 617 247 1155

evan@pedsgo.UUCP (Evan Marcus) (10/07/86)

In article <436@brl-sem.ARPA> ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) writes:
>My favorite is the FAA's use of the word certificate meaning having been
>authorized by a certificate meaning a document indicating that something
>had been certified.
>
>-Ron

The one that bothers me the most is 'utilize'.  Yes, I know it's a word.
It's in everybody's dictionary.  WHAT'S WRONG WITH 'USE'????????
-- 
NAME:   Evan L. Marcus
UUCP:   ...{pesnta|prcrs|princeton|topaz|hjuxa|vax135}!petsd!pedsgo!evan
USnail: CONCURRENT Computer Corporation (a Perkin-Elmer Company)
	M/S 308, 106 Apple St., Tinton Falls, NJ  07724
MA BELL:(201) 758-7357
QUOTE:  "You can call me Al." -- Paul Simon 

akl@hjuxa.UUCP (A. K. Laux) (10/07/86)

()

Didja ever try to count the times the word "basically" gets used in a
typical speech, or even in day-to-day conversation? I had hardly heard
the word used prior to my employment in the computer industry, but since
then, it has earned the number one spot on my ten-most-hated words list.
(Utilize is second; I agree with Evan).


We used to have a running joke where I used to work - this one boss was
in love with that word and used it to nauseating excess. We counted over
20 "basicallys" in one 15 minute meeting! 

AKL@DEC

chris@umcp-cs.UUCP (Chris Torek) (10/09/86)

[Sorry about the massive quoting; I believe it is all relevant.]

In article <235@ima.UUCP> trb@ima.UUCP (Andrew Tannenbaum) writes:
>Functionality is in my dictionary.  (Under functional, Webster's Ninth
>Collegiate Dictionary, Merriam-Webster 1983 red hardcover.)  If you like,
>you can insist that it doesn't exist.  Humor yourself.

What does functionality mean?  Specifically, what does it mean to
*you*?

To me it has two meanings.  `Emacs has more functionality' might
mean `Emacs does more', or it might mean `Emacs works better'.
These are not the same thing.  If you mean one, or the other, say
the one, or the other.  If you mean both, say both.  If the context
makes clear the proper meaning, go ahead and use the word
`functionality'.  If not, avoid it.

>To a programmer, initialize does not mean start.  To initialize means
>to set variables to their initial values.  To a programmer, a variable
>isn't just a parameter or an attribute.  When some haughty lexicographic
>irregular poo-poos something she doesn't understand (technical jargon,
>in this instance) just because she once saw some business woman with a
>three piece suit and a shmatte around her neck use the word finalize,
>all I can do is assume that she is complaining about something of which
>she knows not.

If your `lexicographic irregular' is criticising something written
for programmers, she is wrong.  If she is criticising something
written for others, she may well be right.  Intended audience is
important.

>[...]
>
>I hate the word finalize.  (Set variables to their final values?  ;-)
>In fact, I have never heard an engineer use the word finalize, though I
>have heard (pompous) engineering managers use the word, along with their
>whole raft of silly catch phrases.

If those managers are communicating among themselves, who cares
what words they use?  When they attempt to communicate with *me*,
however, I expect them at least to use `common English'.  Finalize
is not a common English word.  I understand some of those `silly
catch phrases', but I would rather not have to guess at their
meaning.  I could well guess wrong.

>Yes, I'm generalizing.  So take me to mod.legal.  Yes, there are
>engineers who are lousy writers and communicators.  But I find that
>engineers, with their backgrounds in problem solving, are often
>clear thinkers and communicators when compared to people who you'd
>think would be better communicators - politicians, sales, and
>marketing people.

You are an engineer, are you not?  It is then unsurprising that
you understand other engineers.  Chances are that each of these
groups communicate best among themselves.

>When a person puts down "engineerlish" without being quite specific,
>I just chalk it up to ignorance.

Andy is right.  The language of engineers is not somehow `wrong'.
It does not match common English, but this is not the fault of the
language.  In engineering contexts, common English is simply not
appropriate.

A friend of mine likes to say, `There is no good physics that cannot
be explained to your average barmaid.'  He is right.  If you find
the right words, the right analogies---in short, if you can speak
the listener's language---you can say anything.
-- 
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 1516)
UUCP:	seismo!umcp-cs!chris
CSNet:	chris@umcp-cs		ARPA:	chris@mimsy.umd.edu