victoro%Nosc@crash.ARPA (02/27/85)
From: <bang!crash!victoro@Nosc> > From: boyajian%akov68.DEC@decwrl.ARPA (Jerry Boyajian) > Subject: re: Movie Loose Ends > What's to explain? It was meant only to be a throwaway --- a gag > pulled on the one guy by the other. There was no intent on > developing it as a concept; the story moved off in another direction > totally. Now, I agree that it's a fascinating idea that deserves a > full treatment of it's own, but it really had no relevance to the > story in BRAINSTORM, except very superficially. > > --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Maynard, MA) Ah, but is did matter. Brainstorm was the story of the unseen consequences of a discovery. The development of the story centered around the everincreasing spin-offs from the single idea of recording brain waves. Therefore I have a strong feeling toward the 'uncompleteness' of the man-animal link, even missing a 'throwaway' comment such as; 'Well, not it in the records, regardless.' Nuff said, I guess if I didn't like the film so much I would care so much for it's flaws. --- victoro (Victor O'Rear, SDSU, San Diego, CA)
leeper@ahutb.UUCP (m.leeper) (03/02/85)
REFERENCES: <804@topaz.ARPA> > What's to explain? It was meant only to be a throwaway --- a gag > pulled on the one guy by the other. There was no intent on > developing it as a concept; the story moved off in another direction > totally. Now, I agree that it's a fascinating idea that deserves a > full treatment of it's own, but it really had no relevance to the > story in BRAINSTORM, except very superficially. > > --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Maynard, MA) I also think that it matters. The problem is that the BRAINSTORM idea is so rich in implications. Even a long novel would leave most of the implications untouched. When technology can raise man to be a totally empathetic creature, completely understanding the thoughts of another, the nature of all human relationships the invention touches will change. The at-death-experience is one of the least interesting implications they could follow. (Still for the idea and the ideas the film does have, I like the film a lot.) Mark Leeper ...ihnp4!ahutb!leeper
srt@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/10/85)
In article <509@ahutb.UUCP> leeper@ahutb.UUCP (m.leeper) writes: > ... The at-death-experience is one of the least interesting >implications they could follow. ... > > Mark Leeper > ...ihnp4!ahutb!leeper Oh, come on now. The question of what happens when a man dies can hardly be considered uninteresting. Some would argue that this question is what has driven man to civilization and the pursuit of knowledge. I hardly think this is "one of the least interesting" topics BRAINSTORM could have pursued, particularly given the need to write a story, and not just a collection of interesting extrapolations. -- Scott Turner
leeper@ahutb.UUCP (m.r.leeper) (03/12/85)
REFERENCES: <804@topaz.ARPA> <509@ahutb.UUCP>, <4237@ucla-cs.ARPA> > In article <509@ahutb.UUCP> leeper@ahutb.UUCP (m.leeper) writes: > > > ... The at-death-experience is one of the least interesting > >implications they could follow. ... > > Oh, come on now. The question of what happens when a man dies can > hardly be considered uninteresting. No, but it is less interesting than any number of other ideas they touched on but passed up. What it would do to our understanding of animal intelligence and psychology would have been more interesting. What it would do to human relations, what it would do to defense technology, what it would do to psychiatric treatment, to the entertainment industry, all these were ideas picked up and then abandoned. By rights, this should have been BRAINSTORM I, first of a long series to how the world would be completely transformed by this one tool. I do find the at-death experience of some interest, but there is so much more that could be done with the premise given time! Mark Leeper ...ihnp4!ahutb!leeper
srt@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/15/85)
In article <551@ahutb.UUCP> leeper@ahutb.UUCP (m.r.leeper) writes: >REFERENCES: <804@topaz.ARPA> <509@ahutb.UUCP>, <4237@ucla-cs.ARPA> > >> > ... The at-death-experience is one of the least interesting >> >implications they could follow. ... >> >> Oh, come on now. The question of what happens when a man dies can >> hardly be considered uninteresting. > >No, but it is less interesting than any number of other ideas they >touched on but passed up. What it would do to our understanding of >animal intelligence and psychology would have been more interesting. Would you rather know (a) how/what/if a chimpanzee thinks? -or- (b) if there is life after death, and if so, what is it like? For me the answer is clear. Do you REALLY care more about how an animal thinks? If you say so, I'll believe you, but I can't help but find it a rather odd outlook on life (we'll continue this discussion in Heaven :-). >What it would do to human relations, what it would do to defense >technology, what it would do to psychiatric treatment, to the >entertainment industry, all these were ideas picked up and then >abandoned. By rights, this should have been BRAINSTORM I, first of a >long series to how the world would be completely transformed by this >one tool. I do find the at-death experience of some interest, but >there is so much more that could be done with the premise given time! > > Mark Leeper > ...ihnp4!ahutb!leeper Exactly the point. No doubt there are any number of fascinating ideas that arise from positing a device like the one in BRAINSTORM, and an exposition of these might provide material for a good series of speculative articles, or as material for developing a future world in which to write science fiction stories. However... When it actually comes to writing one of those stories, you must concentrate on some facet of the phenomenon. Trying to cover them all in a series of ten movies is a silly idea. Further, to make your movie popular and enjoyable to a wide audience, you'd like to pick a ramification of the device that everyone can relate to. You might have a personal interest in animal psychology (particularly if you teach freshman computer science :-), but it is unlikely to be as embracing a topic as the life after death experience, since everyone gives serious thought to that subject at least occasionally. All of this isn't to say that you can't make an interesting movie about animal psychology. TARZAN, LORD OF THE APES did that to some extent. I'm only pointing out that it is a much more difficult task. And why complicate your task when you have a better topic at hand? I think that the choice to focus on the life after death experience was the right one, but I also agree that there are many other interesting ideas inherent in the story. -- Scott Turner
tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (03/19/85)
The device in Brainstorm did have a number of interesting possibilities. However, seeing the after-death experience is not one of them, so the discussion as it stands is moot. There would be no way for the device to pick up information once brain-death occurred. In the movie, it just blithely continues to record the experiences of her soul. No doubt this was made possible by new astral plane technology they didn't bother to tell us about. Right. -=- Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University, Networking ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!"
hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (03/27/85)
< brain death of a line eater > In article <323@cmu-cs-k.ARPA> tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) writes: >The device in Brainstorm did have a number of interesting possibilities. >However, seeing the after-death experience is not one of them, so the >discussion as it stands is moot. There would be no way for the device to >pick up information once brain-death occurred. In the movie, it just >blithely continues to record the experiences of her soul. No doubt this was >made possible by new astral plane technology they didn't bother to tell us >about. Right. >-=- >Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University, Networking Well, actually, all the technology has to do is record sensory impressions. It looked to me like what they are saying is that "you really do go to heaven, amen, huzzah" but that it's all just a hallucination caused by deteriorating brain function as the brain slowly dies. Hutch