badri@ur-valhalla.UUCP (Badri Lokanathan) (10/09/86)
In article <1245@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU> martillo@trillian.UUCP (Yakim Martillo) writes: >In article <2536@ihlpg.UUCP> nkg1@ihlpg.UUCP writes: >>To: ihnp4!cbatt!clyde!caip!elbereth!rutgers!husc6!panda!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-trillian!martillo >>Subject: Re: An Independent Sikh State >>In-reply-to: your article <1232@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU> > A minor point, first of all. It seems to me that this message was intended to be personal mail to Yakim from nkg1@ihlpg, which accidentally made it to the net. Now to what I have to say: > >I have also read this as well and I am not sure if I believe it. If >there is a knowledgeable Sikh on the net, I would be interested in >comments. I was under the impression Sikh religion rejected a lot of >specifically Hindu practices like caste. Further I am under the >impression Sikh religion owes a lot to Islam and is basically >monotheist. I do not understand what would be the caste status of the >children of a Hindu/Sikh marriage. The only Sikh/Hindu marriages I >know of are between people who are totally removed from traditional >Hindu or Sikh culture. > Disclaimer: I am not a Sikh and therefore what I say here is entirely on the basis of what I have heard from friends belonging to the community referred to or read about in India. (A) Regarding the issue of Hindu-Sikh conversion/marriages, I believe the Arya Samaj community (a reformist hindu sect founded by Dayanand Saraswati) have traditionally had instances of conversion and marriage. An Arya Samaji class mate of mine told me that an uncle of his was a converted Sikh, because his grandmother had taken a vow in a gurudwara (the Sikh place of worship) that she would convert a child to Sikhism if she had a son. He also told me that this is fairly common practice in his community. My cousin's wife, who is a Punjabi hindu, regularly goes to a neighbouring gurudwara, carrying on a practice common in her family. (B) Regarding the issue of caste, one must always keep in mind that although hinduism was the basis for it, it evolved as a complex socio-economic system, often transcending religious boundaries. Evidence: (1) I know a family who claim to be Brahmin Christians (i.e. their ancestors were originally hindu brahmins.) (2) I know of several Sikhs who originally came from backward communities and get social benefits from the govt. because they belong to scheduled castes. E.g. Mr. Buta Singh, who has held several ministerial posts with the Indian govt. claims to be a member of a backward sikh community (whatever that means -) Another Sikh dorm mate of mine got priority admission to the school because he was a "scheduled caste sikh". A Sikh dorm mate of mine (also a classmate and very good friend of mine) claimed rajput (high class warrior) descent and was proud of it. (3) In the South Indian state of Tamil Nadu, there was a spate of conversion from lower caste to the Islamic faith. Newspapers reported that they were still treated as pariahs, not just by the hindu community but by other muslims as well. On paper, each religion that I have mentioned - Christianity, Sikhism and Islam rejects the caste system. Yet it remains as part of the Indian social structure, irrespective of religion. Ironically the government, in its efforts to support members of backward communities, perpetuates the system. In a way there is justification for it; after all, if backward classes are to be supported by additional incentives, then it should apply even to converts - why shouldn't they benefit from a system meant to help all those who suffered under the caste system. The problem is that wherever there is economic benefit, there is bound to be misuse and hence social backlash (as seen in the Gujarat riots.) Coming to the evolution of Sikhism, it did not evolve directly from Islam, but from Sufiism (a reformist islamic sect around the 15th century.) Sufiism claimed to be a hybrid between Islam and hinduism. Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism was initially a sufi, but his teachings are now what is known as the Sikh religion. The sikhs were persecuted by the muslims for their beliefs - several of the Sikh gurus were put to death by the muslim rulers of that time. This is why Sikhism evolved into a highly militant religion from the pacifism of Guru Nanak. The point of this historic diversion is that though Sikhism can claim anscestoral descent from Islam, it was heavily influenced by hindu culture as well. There is sufficient evidence for this; however I will leave the discussion here for someone more knowledgeable. Badri Lokanathan -- "We will fight for the right to be free | ARPA: ur-valhalla!badri@rochester.arpa We will build our own society | UUCP: {cmcl2,columbia,cornell,harvard, We will - we will sing | ll-xn,nike,seismo,topaz} We will sing our own song." -UB40 | !rochester!ur-valhalla!badri