ethan@ut-emx.UUCP (Ethan Tecumseh Vishniac) (12/31/87)
In article <10064@shemp.UCLA.EDU>, troly@CS.UCLA.EDU writes: > {Various literate, sophisticated and ridiculous arguments in favor of a flat Earth deleted, but admired.} These are wonderful articles, but I am greatly puzzled by one thing. They are obviously meant to be satire, but the articles that they most effective satirize are to be found in talk.origins, which is *omitted* from the newsgroup list. Why? Frankly, alt.flame is a poor substitute. -- I'm not afraid of dying Ethan Vishniac, Dept of Astronomy I just don't want to be {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan there when it happens. (arpanet) ethan@astro.AS.UTEXAS.EDU - Woody Allen (bitnet) ethan%astro.as.utexas.edu@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
troly@CS.UCLA.EDU (02/16/88)
In article <2970001@hpclskh.HP.COM> jsp@hpclskh.HP.COM writes: >mike@ivory.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Michael Lodman) writes: > >Now I have a challenge to you (or any flat Earther): Can you put forth a >way -- any way, practical or otherwise -- that _I_ could objectively >verify that the Earth is flat? > Take a trip to Australia. See if you fall off. No fair saying that "down" means "toward the center of the Earth"; "down" already has a meaning. You cannot just redefine it, anymore than I can redefine "up" to mean "north" or "green" to mean "heavy". There are also other fallacies here that I have pointed out previously but I don't have time to go into them now. In fact I don't even have time for this article! :^) ? Bret Jolly (Bo'-ret Tro Ly) Mathemagus LA Platygaean Society . troly@MATH.UCLA.EDU
UE4@PSUVMA.BITNET (Dan Schultz) (02/17/88)
In article <9474@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU>, troly@CS.UCLA.EDU says: > > Gnxr n gevc gb Nhfgenyvn. Frr vs lbh snyy bss. Ab snve fnlvat gung "qbja" >zrnaf "gbjneq gur pragre bs gur Rnegu"; "qbja" nyernql unf n zrnavat. Lbh >pnaabg whfg erqrsvar vg, nalzber guna V pna erqrsvar "hc" gb zrna "abegu" >be "terra" gb zrna "urnil". Gurer ner nyfb bgure snyynpvrf urer gung V unir >cbvagrq bhg cerivbhfyl ohg V qba'g unir gvzr gb tb vagb gurz abj. Va snpg >V qba'g rira unir gvzr sbe guvf negvpyr! :^) > Now it makes more sense! > > > ? >Oerg Wbyyl (Ob'-erg Geb Yl) Zngurznthf YN Cyngltnrna Fbpvrgl > . > gebyl@ZNGU.HPYN.RQH And so does this!!! ------- Daniel B. Schultz BERSERKER: My purpose is to destroy life wherever I can find it. JESTER: What is so unclear about that? BERSERKER: What is life? And how can it be destroyed?
malc@tahoe.unr.edu (Malcolm L. Carlock) (02/19/88)
>Bret Jolly (Bo'-ret Tro Ly) Mathemagus LA Platygaean Society ^^^^^ > . > troly@MATH.UCLA.EDU I thought someone said this guy's name was spelled "Joly" !!!??????? (I haven't had one of his own articles to refer to in a while) BTW, Mr. Jolly, I still await a response to my open letter to you, posted nearly two weeks ago, requesting evidence/proofs of a flat earth . . . Malcolm L. Carlock ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Still waiting to see those photos of the edge of the world . . . and where was it you said the Sun goes at night? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- malc@tahoe.unr.edu.UUCP University of Nevada, Reno
oleg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Oleg Kiselev) (03/08/88)
In article <9474@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> troly@MATH.UCLA.EDU (Bret Jolly) writes: > Take a trip to Australia. See if you fall off. No fair saying that "down" >means "toward the center of the Earth"; "down" already has a meaning. You >cannot just redefine it, anymore than I can redefine "up" to mean "north" >or "green" to mean "heavy". OK, this has gone on long enough, Bret. I have enjoyed your little game so far, but now you are getting boring and tiresome. If you do not stop repeating this nonsense about '"down" already has a meaning' I swear to the NET I will personally flood your mailbox with megabytes of old net.jokes archives. I am not kidding. ;^) Now, be a good boy, Bret, and find a different hobby horse to trample round earthers with. "Common sense", "grammar" and "usage" arguements are just fluff, and we all know it. -- Oleg Kiselev {frodo|bilbo|lcc}.oleg@seas.ucla.edu ...!ihnp4!lcc!oleg oleg@quad1.quad.com (forward) DISCLAIMER: I speak for myself only.
gazit@ganelon.usc.edu (Salit) (03/09/88)
In article <2805@gryphon.CTS.COM> oleg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Oleg Kiselev) writes: >In article <9474@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> troly@MATH.UCLA.EDU (Bret Jolly) writes: >> Take a trip to Australia. See if you fall off. No fair saying that "down" >>means "toward the center of the Earth"; "down" already has a meaning. You >>cannot just redefine it, anymore than I can redefine "up" to mean "north" >>or "green" to mean "heavy". > >OK, this has gone on long enough, Bret. I have enjoyed your little game so >far, but now you are getting boring and tiresome. If you do not stop repeating >this nonsense about '"down" already has a meaning' I swear to the NET I will >personally flood your mailbox with megabytes of old net.jokes archives. >I am not kidding. ;^) Oleg can add the following article to his net.jokes. The following was reprinted (without permission) from "Daily Trojan", the USC newspaper, March 7, 1988: FLAT EARTH SOCIETY: THERE'S NO GETTING AROUND IT ------------------------------------------------ by Keith Cable, staff writer There is a conspiracy afoot. It began 100 years ago, and American writer Washington Irving may have been involved. Today the plot is spread by world government officials and the wealthy elite. It is part of the government continuing effort to "keep the people kind of crazy" said Charles Johnson. Johnson, the president of an organization representing "the tiny few who are reasonable, logical and sane" as its newsletter describes them, is one of 3200 people worldwide who think they know the truth. Through experimentation, Johnson and several other members of the International Flat Earth Research Society claim to have discovered what governments would keep secret: The earth is now, and has always been, flat. Not round, but flat. Completely without curves. As president of the Flat Earth Society, Johnson was involved in several tests run at California's Salton sea. Using boats, marker flags and telescopes, the researchers found no curvature where there should be "an 8-foot hump," said Johnson. And since the world is mostly water, the earth, Johnson maintains, is flat. He said the earth doesn't rotate, either. In the society's newsletter, Flat Earth News, several other experiments are described, including one supporting a non-rotating Earth. It involves an airplane and India. "At midday, send an airplane at 1000 miles per hour from india to (the) west," the newsletter suggests. "After 12 hours, the plane reaches America, 12000 miles away. At the starting time of the plane, in America it will be midnight. After 12 hours, it will be midday there. When the plane started from India, the sun is seen over the plane. It is true that the sun moved in relation to the plane. That is, the sun moves around the Earth. Always will there be the sun over the plane," the author concludes. Since, as Johnson says, the round Earth theory is part of the government's attempt to keep society vulnerable, various other articles address other "big lies" being spread throughout the world. Among the articles are Johnson's column, explaining that "freedom is slavery"; an editorial by his wife, the society's secretary, proving once and for all that "Europe people (sic) eat horses"; and an editorial linking the space shuttle with Satan. The articles are part of the society's efforts to "free (the everyday person's) mind from such blind, unreasoning 'theory / superstition' and so go on to carefully observe," the newsletter states. Johnson calls it the ability "to know for yourself." Johnson's personal quest for the truth began when he was 8 years old. His teacher showed him a globe, then failed to provide him with a logical explanation of "why water didn't fall from the edge (of the globe)." Johnson said he realised the earth must be flat to keep water from falling. "A globe has edges, but a flat earth doesn't," he said. He discovered that others felt the same way he did and also found out that this was not the first time the issue has been raised. He said that Moses began the movement, having written, "The world is described just the way it is." In the 1700's, the Universal Zeletic Society of America and Great Britain was formed, its members believing in a flat earth "instead of going on theories and rigamarole," Johnson said. Members of the present-day society also believe that George Washington may have been a member, and as they are certain that, as a land surveyor, he conducted tests similar to those at the Salton Sea and realised the Earth was flat. Actually, that fact may have been common knowledge following Columbus' voyage. According to the newsletter, "Columbus proved the earth was flat... and so it stood for a while, till the revisionists got busy and reversed, tangled the entire affair up... until all truth is lost! Almost unbelievable (is that) Columbus proved the world a ball!" Johnson said now that the revisionists have successfully changed history, the myth of the round Earth is being spread by public schools. Politicians became involved because "they have to go through public schools too," Johnson said. The world's leaders continue to lie because "to expose the truth now would be to expose (The United States and the Soviet Union) to ridicule," Johnson explained. Instead, he continued, they use it to keep the public "susceptible to anything," including the belief that we've been in space. Geology professor Bernard Pipkin suggested that part of the society's beliefs could be paranoia. "There were people who were sure the government's fluoridating the water was actually poison," he said. On the assertion that the Earth is flat, Pipkin said he'd "go with it" if a model could be constructed that would explain tides, gravity and the changing seasons. No such model exists. Regarding the society's tests, he chuckled and said, "There are all kinds of surveys." /* End of reprinted article. >Now, be a good boy, Bret, and find a different hobby horse to trample round >earthers with. "Common sense", "grammar" and "usage" arguements are just >fluff, and we all know it. Bret, why won't you write a response to the Daily Trojan? They'll love it. >Oleg Kiselev {frodo|bilbo|lcc}.oleg@seas.ucla.edu ...!ihnp4!lcc!oleg Hillel Gazit gazit%ganelon.usc.edu@oberon.usc.edu
faustus@ic.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher) (03/10/88)
The funny thing about this Flat Earth stuff is how mad some people get about it. Whether or not the Earth is flat isn't the real issue, it seems, it's how people react to having their most firmly held beliefs challenged in a "scientific" tone... Wayne
tracer@stb.UUCP (Jeff Boeing) (03/14/88)
They really DID conduct experiments on the Salton Sea which found NO deviation in levels between two or three collinear markers several miles apart where there should have been "an eight-foot hump"? Uh oh. Somebody better reconfirm those results or I may end up a Platy- gaeanist myself! -- Jeff Boeing (which is not my real name) | ...!uunet!stb.uucp!tracer ------------------------------------------|---------------------------- "All right, you weak bosons! You're not dealing with some obscure 9th-level by-the-book paladin anymore!" -- Sick Sword