[talk.origins] Human/Chimp Hybrids?

sbishop@desire.wright.edu (09/26/90)

In article <26700@boulder.Colorado.EDU>, binkley@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Jon Binkley) writes:
> In article <26689@boulder.Colorado.EDU> I wrote:
>  
>>Ah, but horses and donkeys have different numbers of chromosomes as well.
>>This makes their hybrids sterile, but they are viable.  I don't remember
>>the numbers and I'll try to find out.  They are off by one pair, I believe,
>>similarly to humans/apes.  Of course this proves nothing; but differing
>>chromosome numbers is not sufficient to prevent interspecies crosses.
> 
> Found a reference-- _An Atlas of Mammalian Chromesomes_,
> compiled by T.C. Hsu and Kurt Benirschke, Springer-Verlag, 1967.
> 
> Donkey's have 62 (31 pairs), horses have 64 (32 pairs).  Presumably
> two horse chromosomes are similar to one large donkey chromosome;
> the atlas shows their keryotypes, but I'm no cytologist.
> 
> Obviously, there is sufficient homology for the chromosomes to
> line up properly at mitosis.  Meiosis and gamete formation are
> screwed up though, so mules and jennies are sterile (usually). 
> 
>>I'd bet 5 cents that a chimp/human hybrid would be viable, making humans
>>and chimps, by definition, the same genus.  I also hope I'm never proven
>>right.
> 
> As I said, I'm no cytologist, but the keryotypes of horses and donkeys
> look less similiar to me than the keryotypes of humans and chimps, also
> shown in the atlas.  I raise my bet to 10 cents!
> 
> -jon

Could some of the biologists out on the net comment on this?  I found it of
great interest.  If you can explain why chimp/man would not be inter-fertile
then please do so.  And in layman's terms, please.  If keryotypes are simular
what would need to be dissimular to prevent conception?  I also am willing to
consider immunological responses on the part of the host mother.

binkley@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Jon Binkley) (09/28/90)

Since in article <1297.270090e2@desire.wright.edu>, sbishop@desire.wright.edu
took the time to repost my chromosome number articles, I'll take the time
to correct them.

I wrote:
>> Obviously, there is sufficient homology for the chromosomes to
>> line up properly at mitosis.  Meiosis and gamete formation are
>> screwed up though, so mules and jennies are sterile (usually). 

It was pointed out to me in e-mail by Jeff Haemer that chromosomes
don't line up in mitosis, so homology is not important (at least
as far as chromosome segregation is concerned).

sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>Could some of the biologists out on the net comment on this?  I found it of
>great interest.  If you can explain why chimp/man would not be inter-fertile
>then please do so.  And in layman's terms, please.  If keryotypes are simular
>what would need to be dissimular to prevent conception?  I also am willing to
>consider immunological responses on the part of the host mother.

I would like to comment that I don't consider immunological responses
a barrier to interspecies crosses.  The mother's immune system is
no more likely to attack the developing hybrid than it would a child
of her own species.  Someone mentioned the response to Rh+; remember,
this response rarely occurs in the first Rh+ pregnancy of an Rh- mother.
This is because the mother's and child's blood do not come into direct
contact until birth.  At this time, the mother develops anti-Rh antibodies,
and subsequent Rh+ pregnancies are affected.

Since there are now several people named Jon responding to this line, I'd
like to restate that while I think chimp/human hybridization is possible,
I believe that under no circumstances should it be done.  Certain people
have equated this with being anti-technology in general. I'm not; in
fact I work in a lab that does the type of things that make Luddites
like Rifkin cringe.  Nor am I generally opposed to animals being used
for experiments.  However, since I obviously believe chimps to be members
of my own genus, I feel they should be left alone from human experimentation.
Yes, kids, even for AIDS research.

-Jon Binkley