gks@vax135.UUCP (Ken Swanson) (09/08/86)
The following is based on excerpts from a sermon, "Church and State," by Rev. Dr. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. PART II --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question: Did the founders of this nation intend it to be a secularist, neutral, humanist nation; or did they believe that this was a nation created to the glory of God and that it was to be a godly, Christian state? Evidence: * During a time of strife, the communities of New England joined together in the New England Confederation in May of 1643, and the document agreed to begins "Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ and to enjoy the liberties of the Gospel in purity with peace ..." * The First Pennsylvania Charter of Privileges reads, in part, "... And Almighty God being the only Lord God of conscience, Father of lights and spirits; and the author as well as object of all divine knowledge, faith and worship, who only doth enlighten the minds, and persuade and convince the understandings of people ..." It concludes with "And that all persons who also profess to believe in Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, shall be capable (notwithstanding their other persuasions and practices in point of conscience and religion) to serve this government in any capacity, both legislatively and executively ..." * In the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence we find "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." The Declaration of Independence concludes with "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." * Benjamin Franklin said at the convention that met to draw up the Constitution: "I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that 'Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel." * In his first inaugural address, George Washington said "It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, Who presides in the councils of nations ... In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own ..." He ends with "I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more to the benign Parent of the human race in humble supplication that, since He has been pleased to favor the American people with opportunities ... so His divine blessing may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise measure on which the success of this government must depend." end of Part II --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Swanson AT&T Bell Labs ... ihnp4!vax135!gks
jis@mtgzz.UUCP (j.mukerji) (09/10/86)
> * In the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence we find > "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created > equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable > rights, that amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of > happiness." > The Declaration of Independence concludes with > "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on > the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each > other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." > > * Benjamin Franklin said at the convention that met to draw up the > Constitution: > "I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more > convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the > affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without > His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? > We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that 'Except the > Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly > believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid > we shall succeeed in this political building no better than the > builders of Babel." > > * In his first inaugural address, George Washington said > "It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official > act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the > universe, Who presides in the councils of nations ... In tendering this > homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure > myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own ..." > He ends with > "I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more > to the benign Parent of the human race in humble supplication that, > since He has been pleased to favor the American people with > opportunities ... so His divine blessing may be equally conspicuous > in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise > measure on which the success of this government must depend." > > I am trying to figure out why the above quotes are uniquely Christian. They are theistic yes, but unless one were to beleive that the Christians had a monopoly over the Almighty, it seems absurd to claim that any of the above are uniquely Christian statements. Jishnu Mukerji mtgzz!jis
alfke@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (J. Peter Alfke) (09/11/86)
In article <2105@mtgzz.UUCP> jis@mtgzz.UUCP (j.mukerji) writes: >> [someone else's quotes deleted] >I am trying to figure out why the above quotes are uniquely Christian. They >are theistic yes, but unless one were to beleive that the Christians had a >monopoly over the Almighty, it seems absurd to claim that any of the above >are uniquely Christian statements. Well, one can argue that the speakers were Christian, but you are right in pointing out that the *content* of the statements applies equally to most (monotheistic) religions. And it's worth noting that the variety of Christi- anity practiced my many of the Founding Fathers (esp. Jefferson) was rather different from today's standard; it was extremely humanist and not a little mystical. I'm sure they would have been appalled at today's Fundamentalism. -- When I was in my mother's womb Social structure seemed a simple thing --Peter Alfke After birth, I cursed my luck alfke@csvax.caltech.edu Then went down to breakfast (GO4)
news@cdx39.UUCP (news) (09/12/86)
> > * In his first inaugural address, George Washington said > > "It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official > > act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the > > universe, ... > I am trying to figure out why the above quotes are uniquely Christian. They > are theistic yes, but unless one were to beleive that the Christians had a > monopoly over the Almighty, ... Ah, but that is exactly what any Real Christian does believe. And they consider it their duty to impose their belief on you and on me. George Washington also said that one lighthouse is worth a thousand church steeples. Although he did believe in God, this makes it abundantly clear what he thought of most of the people who claim to speak for that God. Most of the other Founding Fathers had about the same love for their fellow Christians, as a casual reading of many history books will show. And note that they did see fit in the Bill of Rights to try to protect us from the imposition of Christianity (or any other religion) as a state-enforced religion. -- John Chambers / cthulhu \ /usenet / inmet \ / news ...!{ harvax }!cdx39!{ jc \ mit-eddie / \ uucp \ mot[bos] / \root
matt@utastro.UUCP (Matt Wood) (09/14/86)
Folks, I learned back in gradeschool that this contry was founded
on the _Freedom_ of the individual. A large part of this freedom was
religious freedom: the freedom to worship whatever god you choose,
and the freedom to worship _no_ god if you choose.
Don't give me this bull that our country was founded to be some
christian commune.
--
Matt A. Wood.
Astronomy Dept, University of Texas, Austin TX 78712
{allegra,ihnp4}!{ut-sally,noao}!utastro!matt (UUCP)
matt@astro.UTEXAS.EDU. (Internet)