gary@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Gary Buchholz) (09/16/86)
In article <203@BMS-AT.UUCP> stuart@BMS-AT.UUCP (Stuart D. Gathman) writes: >Actually, I don't assume evolution is not part of God's plan. I don't >pretend to have been around when God created the world. I am convinced >that it happened just the way the Bible describes it. I get ticked >off at both creationists and evolutionists because of the irrational >basis of both theories.... >I think a subject more approachable from the scientific view is the >Noahic flood... It is certainly an amazing thing to hear a "Supernaturalist" (supernatural: of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is explainable by natural law or phenomena) both calling its theories/stories "scientific" (scientific/science: a branch of knowledge or study dealing with with body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of GENERAL LAWS) and at the same time decrying evolution (a scientific theory open to revision) as "irrational". Irrationality would almost characterize any Supernaturalist explanation since by definition it is law-less. My dictionary defines "irrationalism" as "...a theory that nonrational forces govern the universe." This, to me, sounds like god-talk and all concomitant talk of demonology and (Holy)Spookery. If supernaturalism was rational we would call it science. Rational/irrational distinctions define the space between science and super-natural explanations. Mr. Gathman is "convinced that the flood[/creation] happened just the way the Bible describes it." I would wonder is Mr. Gathman is convinced that the structure of the cosmos is "just the way the Bible describes it" also? The cosmology as can be extracted from the Bible describes the earth as a flat disk surrounded by water on all sides, above and below. The sky is a hard dome of hammered metal. This dome above the flat disk of the earth keeps the water above at bay. God makes it rain by opening "doors" in the dome allowing the water above to fall onto the earth. The dome of the sky is supported by physical pillars situated at the four "corners" of the earth. Seas are simply openings in the disk of the earth allowing the water below to show through. That's basically how the Bible describes the structue of the cosmos. Does Mr. Gathman believe this too ? And which "Biblical creation account" does Mr. Gathman" believe in ? I should point out that "the Bible"(whatever that is) contains remnants of very old Hebraic creation accounts older than what is found in Genesis. Genesis may be the first book in the Hebew canon but it is not the "first" in historical order of text production. It is thought by contempory scholarship that older Hebraic creation accounts have been suppressed by later editors who have imposed the current "literary order" placing their own literature in a privledged (first) position. One consequence of a "law-less Supernaturalism" as invoked by Mr. Gathman to support the "Biblical creation/flood account" is that such a system can be used to justify(=make plausible) anything whatsoever including the Bayblonian creation account (2000 BC). Here is its basic outline. I'm sure Mr. Gathman will find nothing "irrational" in it. At the same time I doubt whether he could tell us why one is more/less plausible than the other. Both are "supernaturally scientific" (oxymoron). -------------------------------------------------------------- From the mingling of primordial waters Apsu(sweet waters / male) and Tiamat(salt water / female) are born a race of gods. These gods begin to cause trouble and Apsu sets out to kill them. One of the gods (EA) steps in and kills Apsu. Tiamat makes war on the younger gods with her general Kingu. One of the gods Marduk says he will fight Tiamat on behalf of the gods provided certain conditions are agreed upon. He will fight Tiamat provided that all the other gods will subordinate themselves to him and that he will have the right to determine destiny. The gods agree and Marduk fights Tiamat and wins. Marduk splits Tiamats body "like a shellfish" into two parts. The upper part is formed into a firmament with guards posted to see that her waters do not escape. On the firmament are fashioned dwellings for the stargods. The lower part of her body becomes the earth. Marduk creates Man from the dust of the earth and the blood of Kingu (Tiamats general). The purpose of Man is to do the bidding of the gods. The gods build a city and name it Babylon. A temple is erected in Marduks honor - as the creator of the world who stops chaos and controls destiny. ---------------------------------------------------------- Sounds pretty "reasonable" to me, right Stuart ? Gary